GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Cerma engine treatment + turbo treatment - Does it actually work?

marc5800

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Ottawa
I ran the liquimoly ceratec in my car and when I got the oil analysis done, blackstone said it looks no different than any other oil. After that I've never purchased it again.
Good to know!
 

ZuMBLe

Autocross Champion
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
I tried ceratec and didn't notice a difference. Tried it on my friends Benz GLK which had a noisy engine and didn't notice much either.
 

brat_burner

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Car(s)
Mk6
I tried ceratec and didn't notice a difference. Tried it on my friends Benz GLK which had a noisy engine and didn't notice much either.

If it had the M276 DI engine it could have been a few things. They updated the chain tensioners, also had a check valve that installed into the head, noisy HPFP, or just injector noise. The ceratec wouldn't have helped any of that.
 

ZuMBLe

Autocross Champion
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
If it had the M276 DI engine it could have been a few things. They updated the chain tensioners, also had a check valve that installed into the head, noisy HPFP, or just injector noise. The ceratec wouldn't have helped any of that.

Don't know much about MB engines, but that thing sounded like crap in the underground garage. I can't say I noticed an improvement on my own car in sound or performance.
 

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
This same nonsense has been peddled under different names for decades; many, many times. At best, nothing happens.

At worst, it will damage your engine; and if anything is actually in it, you could potentially affect a warranty if anyone tests the oil.

They're claiming silicon carbide ceramic particles suspended in fluid, here. That's not something to pour in engine oil.

That's something with which to cut an engine block in half. Their solution to engine wear is to introduce a material into the system that is harder than any other material in the system. That's usually how it goes; but they fail to point out that the stuff would not only fail at preventing damage, it would cause damage. Something has to give, in there. These engines are not built like the equipment commonly treated with such materials. They're not that precisely made, and pistons don't just go up and down.

If a suspension of any particulate matter ever causes a beneficial change in compression which, let's face it, is the only way running could be improved, you were starting out with a very porous liner; a factory defect that will not be covered once they discover you've poured an abrasive medium into your engine, which is precisely what they're claiming they've produced. Porosity in those areas is already eliminated by oil and wear particle saturation. There's nowhere for newly introduced materials to stick.

The argument then is that NASA, the defense industry, Formula One teams... Someone special uses similar technology, right? Well, let's say they did.

Many processes are used in those machines that have no place on a road-going motor vehicle, which must last much longer with far looser tolerance, and the application of such technology is incredibly difficult. You can't just pour it into an engine and expect a notable result. It must be bolstered and it must be applied in a permanent manner, and chemically bonded to the substrate. If the new suspension is capable of such chemical bonding, it must necessarily cause reactions with the rest of the alloys in the system.

This manner of fluid is simply not suitable for quickly reciprocating or rotating assemblies for any notable amount of time. Suspended in grease, harder particles are good for aircraft landing gear and assembling parts that require precisely regulated torque, and that does have many use cases; but not inside an engine. Notice that aircraft landing gear uses such a grease; the same grease used to assemble certain firearms; but that grease is not used once the firearms are assembled, nor is it used in automotive shock absorbers.

Even if it did magically do everything they claim, they couldn't sell it for that price. The fact of the matter is their claims are impossible.

Nobody bothers to test this stuff anymore because it's been tested to hades and back already, and it's just a waste of experimental lab time.
 

Strange Mud

Autocross Champion
Location
Small Town CT
Car(s)
Assorted
Here you go. Since 1923. Marvel Mystery Oil
I haven't used that in a while (OK...long time) but remember a nice minty smell.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
Perhaps the company is owned by Guido Franch or Tim Johnston...

In all fairness to the posters who have noticed an improvement - they may be right.

When something gets noticeably quieter, we notice it - but we don't notice if it gets louder again over time but we are impressed that it got quieter and continue to believe that.

It wasn't that long ago that it was common to pour sawdust into oil to stop leaks and quiet engines. It worked, but nobody would say that it was a proper fix or that it was good for the engines.

When we spend money, we want to believe that we spent it wisely. We want to believe the hype and - after we've spent the money and noticed the "improvement", then we're happy to tell others.

I absolutely believe Jim that he had an improvement after using this stuff, but I also think that there was no lasting improvement but he never noticed the slow "return to normal"

Hell, I always notice a difference after an oil change. I doubt that it is actually there but I want to notice a difference.

That's how our brains work.
 

1ashchuckton

Autocross Champion
Location
Ohio
The placebo effect is very strong with many of these reptilian oil enhancers.

My car runs better after an oil change. It runs even moar better after a car wash & detail. Scientific farce, I mean fact.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
The placebo effect is very strong with many of these reptilian oil enhancers.

My car runs better after an oil change. It runs even moar better after a car wash & detail. Scientific farce, I mean fact.
You're right. Mine runs far better after the car wash...
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Perhaps the company is owned by Guido Franch or Tim Johnston...

In all fairness to the posters who have noticed an improvement - they may be right.

When something gets noticeably quieter, we notice it - but we don't notice if it gets louder again over time but we are impressed that it got quieter and continue to believe that.

It wasn't that long ago that it was common to pour sawdust into oil to stop leaks and quiet engines. It worked, but nobody would say that it was a proper fix or that it was good for the engines.

When we spend money, we want to believe that we spent it wisely. We want to believe the hype and - after we've spent the money and noticed the "improvement", then we're happy to tell others.

I absolutely believe Jim that he had an improvement after using this stuff, but I also think that there was no lasting improvement but he never noticed the slow "return to normal"

Hell, I always notice a difference after an oil change. I doubt that it is actually there but I want to notice a difference.

That's how our brains work.

I agree about the placebo effect for lots of things. All I can say is that when I got my SE I noticed the same clickety clack sounds from the engine that I hear in the videos guys have posted. I always comment that the engine sounds terrible and everyone responds by saying that they all sound like that. After adding the Cerma engine treatment my engine still sounds great even at a cold startup. I'm at 74,000 miles now and it sounds great. The next time a friend happens to stop by on the weekend when I haven't started the engine overnight I'll have him start it and record the sound and post it. I have no vested interest at all in Cerma. Like I said I learned about it on the Veloster Turbo forum.
 

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
I agree about the placebo effect for lots of things. All I can say is that when I got my SE I noticed the same clickety clack sounds from the engine that I hear in the videos guys have posted. I always comment that the engine sounds terrible and everyone responds by saying that they all sound like that. After adding the Cerma engine treatment my engine still sounds great even at a cold startup. I'm at 74,000 miles now and it sounds great. The next time a friend happens to stop by on the weekend when I haven't started the engine overnight I'll have him start it and record the sound and post it. I have no vested interest at all in Cerma. Like I said I learned about it on the Veloster Turbo forum.

If that effect can be measured, what they've produced is a viscosity modifier.

Lucas products will provide a similar result, in that regard.

When recording a running engine, most microphones will pick up valve noise and things of that nature much more readily than other sounds. Even the decent setup that I used to record the engine in my G20t really made all those sounds pop; and if the hood is open it'll add a bit of resonance. You really need a larger diaphragm to properly record an engine; or post-processing. Neither cameras nor microphones really do what we hope they will. They need to be pushed around and bullied into performance.

Another issue is focus. You're hearing only the engine; which rarely ever happens. It's the loudest thing happening in the recording, and the most focused in regard to the sound field. It's going to sound different than it does in person.

Here's an example. Yes, this video is truly terrible from any perspective, and it's supposed to be terrible; but the idle recording is done well. It's only a few seconds in. The rest is deliberately cringy nonsense:


Couldn't do any better given some recent brain and lung damage after a bout with a surprisingly annoying illness, so I figured I'd just use the warm-up cut and make fun of myself. :p

Later on, there's a recording of the mostly factory sound system, and you can hear that the microphone capsule is actually pretty darn solid. This should skip all the other stuff and take you right there:


The engine is nowhere near that noisy in person. The microphone is simply picking up everything at different levels than an ear does. The reason the music sounds so good is the cabin itself managing lower frequencies. If I was filming a movie or making a new car commercial, I'd level it; but I don't want anyone buying that thing and coming back later to complain. Best to have a flat idle recording and an idiot on commentary... Then fill it with dad jokes like your grandfather trying to be a "hip Youtuber" to see how cringy I can make it.

This isn't meant to be any manner of advertisement on the forum, mind you. I would assume everyone here already has at least a relatively new Golf. I just happened to have shot this last week after finally opening the door to the outside world again, and it's coincidentally topical in this regard.
 
Last edited:

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
Maybe I should do an oil change and record that again, with the same microphone under the same conditions? I can just run it down to a Nissan dealer on Monday; nothing fancy or special.

Anyone think that's a good idea? It won't take me long just to do that, and we'll find out immediately if new oil does indeed make the engine sound nicer.
 
Last edited:

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
If that effect can be measured, what they've produced is a viscosity modifier.

Lucas products will provide a similar result, in that regard.

When recording a running engine, most microphones will pick up valve noise and things of that nature much more readily than other sounds. Even the decent setup that I used to record the engine in my G20t really made all those sounds pop; and if the hood is open it'll add a bit of resonance. You really need a larger diaphragm to properly record an engine; or post-processing. Neither cameras nor microphones really do what we hope they will. They need to be pushed around and bullied into performance.

Another issue is focus. You're hearing only the engine; which rarely ever happens. It's the loudest thing happening in the recording, and the most focused in regard to the sound field. It's going to sound different than it does in person.

Here's an example. Yes, this video is truly terrible from any perspective, and it's supposed to be terrible; but the idle recording is done well. It's only a few seconds in. The rest is deliberately cringy nonsense:


Couldn't do any better given some recent brain and lung damage after a bout with a surprisingly annoying illness, so I figured I'd just use the warm-up cut and make fun of myself. :p

Later on, there's a recording of the mostly factory sound system, and you can hear that the microphone capsule is actually pretty darn solid. This should skip all the other stuff and take you right there:


The engine is nowhere near that noisy in person. The microphone is simply picking up everything at different levels than an ear does. The reason the music sounds so good is the cabin itself managing lower frequencies. If I was filming a movie or making a new car commercial, I'd level it; but I don't want anyone buying that thing and coming back later to complain. Best to have a flat idle recording and an idiot on commentary... Then fill it with dad jokes like your grandfather trying to be a "hip Youtuber" to see how cringy I can make it.

This isn't meant to be any manner of advertisement on the forum, mind you. I would assume everyone here already has at least a relatively new Golf. I just happened to have shot this last week after finally opening the door to the outside world again, and it's coincidentally topical in this regard.

The Cerma engine treatment does not alter viscosity. It coats surfaces.


https://www.cermastore.com/engine-treatment-gas-and-diesel-autos.html
 

dosjockey

Go Kart Champion
Location
South
The Cerma engine treatment does not alter viscosity. It coats surfaces.


https://www.cermastore.com/engine-treatment-gas-and-diesel-autos.html

There's how it's advertised, and how it may achieve any result at all. Those are two different scenarios entirely.

It must necessarily alter viscosity. It is impossible for that not to occur. Likewise, it cannot "coat" a surface and maintain that coating simply by being poured into an engine.

If the engine was freshly assembled, having never been oiled, it would be possible; but only temporarily.

Their claims are not possible. If it's doing anything at all, it has to be altering the viscosity or lubricity of the oil itself. From a perspective of generous objectivity, that is the maximum amount of rope they can be given.
 
Top