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Disappointed in amount of turbo lag in my 2020 GTI

jaypoto

Go Kart Champion
Location
NJ
Car(s)
2017 Alltrack S DSG
I can see why the car feels like it has turbo lag. The MK7.5 is a very different-feeling car from my DSG MKV (mine had the FSI motor, they switched over to the TSI sometime during the 2008 model year) and manual MK6. Handling is noticeably better, especially with the LSD up front, but the throttle tuning (as many here have pointed to) really isn't doing it any favors.

It doesn't help that the DSG is set to shift so quickly to higher gears either. I don't think the revs go over 2.5k in regular driving. I feel like I have to press the gas pedal down a lot to get it to stay in any gear longer. Using "S" or the paddles helps though. That aside, downshifts are disappointingly slow when trying to force them by pressing on the gas pedal. Using the paddles to quickly drop 2-3 gears is pretty easy too.

All that aside, it's stuff that's relatively easy to adjust your driving style to or work around, but I do wish the DSG was programmed to be a bit more responsive from the factory though. I had a Madza CX-9 that downshifted more readily than the DSG does, but that's not to say its transmission wasn't without its own faults either of course.

All these reasons are why I went with a bms pedal tuner even though I'm dsg tuned already. The dsg tune helped a bit but the pedal tuner made it how it should've been from the factory. Direct input with zero throttle lag vs. having to keep pushing the pedal down hoping for a downshift but usually boosting it hard in the gear you are in. I don't think it has as much impact on a manual car as a dsg. Also installs in 5 minutes so warranty friendly if you need to take it out.
 

Snowmanmk7

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Singapore
All these reasons are why I went with a bms pedal tuner even though I'm dsg tuned already. The dsg tune helped a bit but the pedal tuner made it how it should've been from the factory. Direct input with zero throttle lag vs. having to keep pushing the pedal down hoping for a downshift but usually boosting it hard in the gear you are in. I don't think it has as much impact on a manual car as a dsg. Also installs in 5 minutes so warranty friendly if you need to take it out.

will this pedal tuner cause any CEL?
 

norsairius

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United States Midwest
Car(s)
2019 GTI SE DSG
All these reasons are why I went with a bms pedal tuner even though I'm dsg tuned already. The dsg tune helped a bit but the pedal tuner made it how it should've been from the factory. Direct input with zero throttle lag vs. having to keep pushing the pedal down hoping for a downshift but usually boosting it hard in the gear you are in. I don't think it has as much impact on a manual car as a dsg. Also installs in 5 minutes so warranty friendly if you need to take it out.
Yeah, I think if I'm going to mod anything, this will be it. I know it doesn't actually make any more power or the car any faster, but it'll make driveability overall better.

I'm going to see how adjusting my right foot goes for a while first and see if that gets me to a point where I feel it's acceptable. If not, I'll probably earmark some budget for the BMS pedal tuner.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Here's what the pedal tuner does if anyone is interested. Does exactly what you would expect - pushes out more voltage from the accelerator switch for a given amount of pedal travel which will have flow-through to increased throttle response for that given amount of pedal travel vs. stock. Jaypoto provided these pedal tuner data.

pedal tuner.jpg
 

NewYorkerInLA

New member
Location
Los Angeles
Car(s)
MK7 GTI PP
I had a 987 Boxster right before my MK7, and if all the magazine reviews are true that car's throttle response is up there with the best and has that ideal linear powerband everyone apparently looks for. None of that mattered, that car had zero torque until you hit 3,000 RPM - typical Porsche NA flat 6 character - and torque peak at the very top which is fun in the canyons not so fun in everyday driving. My car before the Boxster was a TSX, with a K-series VTEC engine that Honda nerds put in every project car these days. That car also had no torque until VTEC came on at something like 5000 RPM.

I'll take my GTI's fraction-of-a-second turbo lag with a flat torque curve and good gas mileage over my old cars' throttle response.
 

Hakiroto

New member
Location
Berlin
Car(s)
Golf GTI
Great thread. Thanks, everyone. I'm about a week away from picking up my first GTI so this is all good information. After driving one a few days ago I did feel like it took a little longer to get going in second gear than I thought it would but I haven't had a car in 10 years so I don't have much to compare it to other than the odd rental. The last car I owned, back then, was a REVO-tuned Cupra R with ~290. That thing spun up and pinned you so quickly but it was also a pig on fuel, even when taking it easy. Man, cars have come a long way since I owned that Cupra. The interior of the GTI is such a nice place to be, too.
 

norsairius

Go Kart Newbie
Location
United States Midwest
Car(s)
2019 GTI SE DSG
I'll just add here that adjusting my habits with my right foot have pretty much remedied my concerns around the throttle response and I think it'll get even better as I continue to test things out more. I can still understand why people would get a pedal tuner or use something like OBDEleven to tweak things though.

My biggest gripe then is still the relatively sluggish downshifts. I feel like I sometimes want to have the car downshift and have me accelerating at a 5 or 6 (on a scale of 1-10, 1 being "puttering around the neighborhood" and 10 being "track day straight"), but it's hard to get it to do that for me and have it downshift quickly. It seems it'll only downshift quickly if I press the gas pedal enough such that it'll then have me accelerating at something closer to an 8.

So the issue, at least to me, isn't turbo lag or throttle response. It's the transmission's response/tuning. I know there are tunes for that, but I don't want the dreaded TD1 flag on my car. I can always use manual mode and try out more things with the throttle input too. It makes me wish I searched a bit longer for a manual like my last one was, but I've only had the car for a couple weeks, so I'm sure I'll adjust to it more as time goes on.

All that said, this is still an amazing car. It lives up to, and exceeds, the expectations my previous two GTIs set and I'm glad to have one again after taking a break from GTIs for as long as I did.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
I'll just add here that adjusting my habits with my right foot have pretty much remedied my concerns around the throttle response and I think it'll get even better as I continue to test things out more. I can still understand why people would get a pedal tuner or use something like OBDEleven to tweak things though.

My biggest gripe then is still the relatively sluggish downshifts. I feel like I sometimes want to have the car downshift and have me accelerating at a 5 or 6 (on a scale of 1-10, 1 being "puttering around the neighborhood" and 10 being "track day straight"), but it's hard to get it to do that for me and have it downshift quickly. It seems it'll only downshift quickly if I press the gas pedal enough such that it'll then have me accelerating at something closer to an 8.

So the issue, at least to me, isn't turbo lag or throttle response. It's the transmission's response/tuning. I know there are tunes for that, but I don't want the dreaded TD1 flag on my car. I can always use manual mode and try out more things with the throttle input too. It makes me wish I searched a bit longer for a manual like my last one was, but I've only had the car for a couple weeks, so I'm sure I'll adjust to it more as time goes on.

All that said, this is still an amazing car. It lives up to, and exceeds, the expectations my previous two GTIs set and I'm glad to have one again after taking a break from GTIs for as long as I did.
All of this is almost 100% driver controlled. If you use manual mode, most of this is remedied or even a combo of sport/drive when needed to keep RPMs in the range needed. When I let my teenage son drive it with his permit, the car feels terrible b/c honestly, he doesn't have the experience I do with it and how to modulate the throttle and use the various modes of the tranny - he just puts it in drive and goes. Folks want a manual to have all this control but aren't will to do the same thing in terms of interaction with the DSG that has all of this great flexibility. If you only drive the DSG in auto/drive, you will be disappointed with the way a small turbo, especially when tuned, feels.
 
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Ghost GTI

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Cockpit
Car(s)
'19 GTI SE DSG
Just want to throw this out there for anyone thinking of the pedal tuner with an EQT staged tune. I asked Ed specifically about the BMS pedal tuner and he advised AGAINST it with his tune. He said, with the pedal tuner, he'd advise getting a custom tune instead.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Just want to throw this out there for anyone thinking of the pedal tuner with an EQT staged tune. I asked Ed specifically about the BMS pedal tuner and he advised AGAINST it with his tune. He said, with the pedal tuner, he'd advise getting a custom tune instead.
That's pretty interesting!
 

Ghost GTI

Drag Racing Champion
Location
Cockpit
Car(s)
'19 GTI SE DSG
That's pretty interesting!
Yeah. I was pretty sad because on my '16 I had it and loved it. To me, the pedal tuner was almost as nice as getting the car tuned. After he said no go on it, I sold mine to a friend.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Just want to throw this out there for anyone thinking of the pedal tuner with an EQT staged tune. I asked Ed specifically about the BMS pedal tuner and he advised AGAINST it with his tune. He said, with the pedal tuner, he'd advise getting a custom tune instead.

I have an EQT remote dyno tune and the Pedal Tuner and they work fine together.
 

shortyb

Autocross Newbie
Location
Upstate SC
Car(s)
Felon Taxi,Dad Wagon
All of this is almost 100% driver controlled. If you use manual mode, most of this is remedied or even a combo of sport/drive when needed to keep RPMs in the range needed. When I let my teenage son drive it with his permit, the car feels terrible b/c honestly, he doens't have the experience I do with it and how to modulate the throttle and use the various modes of the tranny - he just puts it in drive and goes. Folks want a manual to have all this control but aren't will to do the same thing in terms of interaction with the DSG that has all of this great flexibility. If you only drive the DSG in auto/drive, you will be disappointed with the way a small turbo, especially when tuned, feels.

Sadly, this.

I used to drive manual transmission cars exclusively until I learned the joys of the DSG.

(please, let's NOT turn this into a DSG vs Manual thread. I'm just expounding on the post response and how it's all related to "lag").

There is a ton of flexibility in the DSG that can help counteract the shitty pedal response mapping if you take some time with it. Also, there is Sport response for the trans but it defaults to standard (D) upon restart. You always have to reselect it. There are many threads that say it makes no difference, but if you have VCDS you can see that it is similar to a pedal tuner in that it changes voltage. VAG dumbs down the pedal response for "safety" because like everything else, someone would blame the "touchy" pedal for a crash :rolleyes:. Same as why we have throttle cut with braking. DSG tunes take all of this into consideration and go a long way with curing these ills.
 
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