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2020 FORMULA 1 SEASON

CarlosCanizares

Go Kart Champion
Vbrad: not sure if you’re actually going to the Chinese GP, but it’s expected to be called off; possibly rescheduled.

I hope you can get refunds.

if it was a joke, glad you’ll be ok 🤓
 

CarlosCanizares

Go Kart Champion
He just needs time to get over it. He's young and maybe sensitive, but I agree about staying true to himself.

Imagine Lewis "toning down" the shit he says? LOL - not happening.
 

torga

Autocross Newbie
Is that what this DAS is? I couldn't find anywhere to find what it does. Merc are swearing up and down that the FIA is fine with it and it's legal.... but changing suspension setup on the fly during a race, I'm pretty sure that's not allowed. So who's saying it changes camber?

 

hans611

Lost
A couple of updates.... Racing Point showed up with last years Mercedes in pink....







The front end / wing / bargeboards are an exact copy... around the sidepods and then farther back they thew their own ideas, but thats expected... its easy to copy the front end, but what happens with airflow after that is very complicated, there are thousands of variables... there is simply no way to copy the ENTIRE car and have it behave as its supposed to... but they basically copied as much as its helpful.... apparently legal... but other things, t wing, airbox, etc, exact copies... hell even the brakes:



And the new Mercedes W11 has "Dual Axis Steering" (DAS), They just unveiled it earlier today in Barcelona...

VIDEO

It adjusts the toe angle... Most likely to keep the front tyres at temperature in the straights... With the full blessing of the FIA btw...

Mercedes have no concerns over legality of new ‘DAS’ steering system - Ariticle

edit: Ahhh you guys Ninja posted ahead of me haha... Here is a video of RP's Technical Director admitting the "copy" and being very honest:

 

torga

Autocross Newbie
@torga you see mercedes now has a button on their steering wheel to change chamber in the straightaways? wow
And the new Mercedes W11 has "Dual Axis Steering" (DAS), They just unveiled it earlier today in Barcelona...

VIDEO

It adjusts the toe angle... Most likely to keep the front tyres at temperature in the straights... With the full blessing of the FIA btw...

Mercedes have no concerns over legality of new ‘DAS’ steering system - Ariticle
FIA's Formula One Technical Regulations. Article 10, Section 2, Paragraph 3.

10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion.

Maybe Mercedes are interpreting this as no permanent adjustment to the suspension system. That's the only way I can imagine the FIA would be okay with this.
 

BoostedVW11

Drag Racing Champion
Is that what this DAS is? I couldn't find anywhere to find what it does. Merc are swearing up and down that the FIA is fine with it and it's legal.... but changing suspension setup on the fly during a race, I'm pretty sure that's not allowed. So who's saying it changes camber?

see what Hans611 post, very informative
A couple of updates.... Racing Point showed up with last years Mercedes in pink....







The front end / wing / bargeboards are an exact copy... around the sidepods and then farther back they thew their own ideas, but thats expected... its easy to copy the front end, but what happens with airflow after that is very complicated, there are thousands of variables... there is simply no way to copy the ENTIRE car and have it behave as its supposed to... but they basically copied as much as its helpful.... apparently legal... but other things, t wing, airbox, etc, exact copies... hell even the brakes:



And the new Mercedes W11 has "Dual Axis Steering" (DAS), They just unveiled it earlier today in Barcelona...

VIDEO

It adjusts the toe angle... Most likely to keep the front tyres at temperature in the straights... With the full blessing of the FIA btw...

Mercedes have no concerns over legality of new ‘DAS’ steering system - Ariticle

edit: Ahhh you guys Ninja posted ahead of me haha... Here is a video of RP's Technical Director admitting the "copy" and being very honest:

lol at ninja post, your post was much more informative .

Yeah the DAS system changes the toe angle in the straights, theres video of it. Interesting for sure, mercedes was already hard enough to compete with.

alfas new car livery looks great, so does williams rokit imo

This is the new they claim the rear wings will cause less turbulent air right?, we'll see i guess ...



Team Leclerc here
 

torga

Autocross Newbie
FIA's Formula One Technical Regulations. Article 10, Section 2, Paragraph 3.

10.2.3 No adjustment may be made to any suspension system while the car is in motion.

Maybe Mercedes are interpreting this as no permanent adjustment to the suspension system. That's the only way I can imagine the FIA would be okay with this.
In addition:
10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of any suspension system is forbidden.

I hope their DAS is purely mechanical, in that case. This is one of those "barely legal until another team makes a strong enough case" pieces of tech. In any case, I love it. This is the innovation that makes Formula 1 the top dog in motorsport.

Edit: Unlessssss, adjusting the toe -- and only the toe -- is not viewed as an adjustment to the suspension setup by the FIA. It's only changing the angles of the front wheels. The toe arm's function is limited to maintaining that angle. If they've designed it cleverly enough, it shouldn't affect the suspension system.

10.4.1 Any steering system which permits the re-alignment of more than two wheels is not permitted.
--- Still only changing two wheels at a time. This rule checks out.

10.4.3 No part of the steering wheel or column, nor any part fitted to them, may be closer to the driver than a plane formed by the entire rear edge of the steering wheel rim. All parts fixed to the steering wheel must be fitted in such a way as to minimise the risk of injury in the event of a driver’s head making contact with any part of the wheel assembly.
--- This is a technicality that I could see making an issue. When I was in Formula SAE, this distance of wheel to driver was extremely important and the template was very precise. There was very little wiggle room for us to adjust this distance. Watching the video of Hamilton pulling the wheel, it looks like he pulls the wheel towards himself at least 10mm. That is a whole hell of a lot when you're designing on the edge of regulations.
 
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hans611

Lost
In addition:
10.2.2 Any powered device which is capable of altering the configuration or affecting the performance of any part of any suspension system is forbidden.

I hope their DAS is purely mechanical, in that case. This is one of those "barely legal until another team makes a strong enough case" pieces of tech. In any case, I love it. This is the innovation that makes Formula 1 the top dog in motorsport.

Edit: Unlessssss, adjusting the toe -- and only the toe -- is not viewed as an adjustment to the suspension setup by the FIA. It's only changing the angles of the front wheels. The toe arm's function is limited to maintaining that angle. If they've designed it cleverly enough, it shouldn't affect the suspension system.

10.4.1 Any steering system which permits the re-alignment of more than two wheels is not permitted.
--- Still only changing two wheels at a time. This rule checks out.

10.4.3 No part of the steering wheel or column, nor any part fitted to them, may be closer to the driver than a plane formed by the entire rear edge of the steering wheel rim. All parts fixed to the steering wheel must be fitted in such a way as to minimise the risk of injury in the event of a driver’s head making contact with any part of the wheel assembly.
--- This is a technicality that I could see making an issue. When I was in Formula SAE, this distance of wheel to driver was extremely important and the template was very precise. There was very little wiggle room for us to adjust this distance. Watching the video of Hamilton pulling the wheel, it looks like he moves it forward at least 10mm. That is a whole hell of a lot when you're designing on the edge of regulations.
The idea around 10.2.2 is that the steering wheel is by definition a movable device and exempt... The steering wheel actively alters the suspension on all F1 cars already... Ackerman steering alters toe and ride height.... And its safe to assume its unpowered... whats curious is as Hamilton pushes the wheel back and forth, the toe change in the tyre itself is quick, almost like an ON/OFF, not progressively going from one toe setting to another as he gently moves the wheel.... Im so curious to see how it works...

edit: on 10.4.3 I guess thats done during scrutinizing / parc ferme (They just leave the wheel pushed forward) .... There is nothing explicit saying the wheel cant move after....

They are boasting that the FIA told them its allowed... It must be, or else they wouldn't, right? Whats their angle here....

The teams can convince the FIA its a safety issue (Hamilton's comments on the device where always, "very safe", "easy", etc... really trying to drive the point there is nothing unsafe about it), Thats the only way to ban it.... The only other way is to add a regulation that prevents the second axis movement of a the wheel, but they would need approval for all the teams... including mercedes...
 
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torga

Autocross Newbie
The idea around 10.2.2 is that the steering wheel is by definition a movable device and exempt... The steering wheel actively alters the suspension on all F1 cars already... Ackerman steering alters toe and ride height.... And its safe to assume its unpowered... whats curious is as Hamilton pushes the wheel back and forth, the toe change in the tyre itself is quick, almost like an ON/OFF, not progressively going from one toe setting to another as he gently moves the wheel....
I imagine it's not intended to be freely adjustable by the driver. They've dialed in two toe settings: one more negative to maintain cornering agility and one more positive than that to increase stability on the straights. So he pushes all the way in for the more negative setting and pulls all the way out for the more positive setting. Doesn't need to be more complicated than that.
 

hans611

Lost
I imagine it's not intended to be freely adjustable by the driver. They've dialed in two toe settings: one more negative to maintain cornering agility and one more positive than that to increase stability on the straights. So he pushes all the way in for the more negative setting and pulls all the way out for the more positive setting. Doesn't need to be more complicated than that.
Exactly having the driver eyeball toe adjustment by moving the wheel forwards and back millimeters is not feasible... Having it snap back and forth between to preset adjustments is the best approach... its just so curious to see how they did it, it looks like a very elegant design.....

I dont think stability is an issue in the straights, its more to keep the tires warm by adding more toe in the straights... The wear rate isnt a problem because the tyres wearing faster are usually the rears...

OR in other circuits they could have more toe for slow corners, their weakness, to help the car rotate and on the straights dial it back and prevent overheating... its marvelous

edit: OR maybe stability in high speed corners.... Say the Silverstone eses... have one pre-set setting with more toe out* for the slow speed corners, like the ones before the start/finish and then more* toe in for all the high speed ones....
 

torga

Autocross Newbie
Exactly having the driver eyeball toe adjustment by moving the wheel forwards and back millimeters is not feasible... Having it snap back and forth between to preset adjustments is the best approach... its just so curious to see how they did it, it looks like a very elegant design.....

I dont think stability is an issue in the straights, its more to keep the tires warm by adding more toe in the straights... The wear rate isnt a problem because the tyres wearing faster are usually the rears...

OR in other circuits they could have more toe in for slow corners, their weakness, to help the car rotate and on the straights dial it back and prevent overheating... its marvelous

edit: OR maybe stability in high speed corners.... Say the Silverstone eses... have one pre-set setting with more toe out* for the slow speed corners, like the ones before the start/finish and then more* toe in for all the high speed ones....
Ah, tire nannying makes a lot more sense.

I can't wait to see a technical analysis on this, and I'm really curious to know how much weight the system adds. I wonder if it'll make it to the season proper.
 
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