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2022 Formula 1 Season

dtfd

Autocross Champion
Seb seems pretty non cunty.

Lewis too but I just started watching so idk how he was in his early years.
I think Lewis is the biggest cunt of them all. His #blessed attitude after being a cunt only annoys me more.

Same thing with Ricardo.

Yes, every driver in that group is a cunt, but some are cuntier than others.
 

dtfd

Autocross Champion
my brother in christ have you ever heard of lance stroll or nicolas latifi
Lance Stroll is a huge cunt. He's got that rich boy attitude that you can hear in all his team messages.

But yes we all know he's there because daddy owns the whole damn team.

Latifi is...........Latifi.
 

mwoodski

Drag Racing Champion
Lance Stroll is a huge cunt. He's got that rich boy attitude that you can hear in all his team messages.

But yes we all know he's there because daddy owns the whole damn team.

Latifi is...........Latifi.
no that was in response to being one of the top 20 drivers in the world lol

i watched stroll bury a daytona prototype on his first ever out lap at daytona once it was great
 

torga

Autocross Champion
Maybe off-track you perceive some as not being that much of cunts, but they are all cunts on-track, again... or else they wouldn't be the top 20 in the world. You have to be a cunt..... or else they would haven't gotten there.
my brother in christ have you ever heard of lance stroll or nicolas latifi

Stroll and Latifi are top 20, too.... Top 20 in convincing their daddies to pay for a seat.


Both skill and money talk in F1, and I wish it were only skill. But some pay drivers have ended up being good, so you never know.
 

hans611

Lost
my brother in christ have you ever heard of lance stroll or nicolas latifi

Are you saying they are, or that they aren't cunts on track? Stroll? Really? He and Magnussen are the most brutal on track...

Or is your point that they are rich? They are still good enough for F1... Is Stroll off Vettel's pace or something? Lattifi is Lattifi, being Lattifi, and somehow not getting overshadowed by Albon.

Seb seems pretty non cunty.

Lewis too but I just started watching so idk how he was in his early years.

Seb was the biggest cunt in F1 until his second or third year in Ferrari, that really humbled him.... While at Red Bull, I literally hated him. Have you heard of multi 21? Seb was a huge dick lol

Edit: I was actually kind of conflicted when Vettel signed for Ferrari, I was a huge Alonso/Ferrari fan during his reign at Red Bull, but he won me over with his passion. He names his cars :)

https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2022/04/11/sebastian-vettel-f1-car-names/

Stroll and Latifi are top 20, too.... Top 20 in convincing their daddies to pay for a seat.


Both skill and money talk in F1, and I wish it were only skill. But some pay drivers have ended up being good, so you never know.

Stroll is actually good enough, unfortunately whether we like it or not... there is no one fresh off the feeder series that would challenge him imo, even Drugovich.... I expected a much bigger gap to Vettel.

Latifi is a special case as the Williams kind of needed the money, yeah there are a few pay seats in F1, but thanks to the regulations and better funding, Williams will not need Latifi next year...

So 19 of the top drivers*

edit2: Also imo Lewis has been the best at PR of the F1 big names, he never actually gets heated, or says the wrong things, give back hand comments.. What he does do is be a bit sarcastic or have people read between the lines but he comes out much cleaner... in his early years, he made Alonso look like an absolute monster (circa 2008), while he was a saint... and he did it to Rosberg as well later on, imo there is no early years Lewis, he was never actually much of a cunt off track either, he has the most self control, since day one....

Max on the other hand is very very emotional. Note that Verstappen started in F1 at 16 and Hamilton at 23...... Verstappen just turned 25 last month.... This guy has a lot to go, both in performance and emotionally, etc...
 
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g-magoo

Drag Racing Champion
I think it's easy for us mere mortals to sit back and say this or that driver sucks, and to a degree, we can be sorta correct. The issue is, these guys are driving the worlds fastest 'cars' around a race circuit. All while fucking around with all sorts of settings, laying damn near horizontal, speaking to their race engineer, and trying to beat some of the best in the world.

Some teams need money, some don't. You might have to compromise on the driver selection if you know that one driver is going to bring 40 million more than the other. Latifi is there because at one point Williams NEEDED money. Now they don't and Latifi is gone next season. I won't get into it with Stroll, but I am ready to see him get rocked by a 41 y.o. Alonso. I think the budget cap has alleviated the need for the smaller teams to rely on 'pay-drivers' and I think we will see mostly seats filled by merit, not a paycheck.

That being said, I think it's wrong to the say F1 currently has the top 20 (19) drivers in the world; they are the 20 best drivers that make/made sense to the respective team that signed them.

Are some of them the best in the world? Abso-fuggin-lutely. Shit, we are currently watching some of the best drivers the sport has ever seen. Plus, look at how well most do when they jump into other racing series, those guys are always at the top/competitive.


As for Lewis. Ham has had his moments, but I'd agree, he's probably one of the cleanest (on/off track) multi WDC ever. I'm not really sure many drivers would have handled last years Abu Dhabi podium the way he did. As much as I couldn't stand watching Merc walk away most every race between 2014-2016, I was always ready for some Ham/Rosberg drama.

 

95gto

Go Kart Newbie
Saying the drivers are all that way is a gross oversimplification. Do they all think they are faster than everyone else, yes. Are they going to act with self interest, yes. Leclerc's request to have Ferrari tell Sainz to swap positions is proof of that. To this extent you are correct, the athletes need to have these traits as part of their personality to make it to this level in the sport.

However you shouldn't conflate thinking you are the fastest guy on the track with effectively flipping off your teammate due to a grudge about perceived behavior. I have seen plenty of races where two teammates were in that type of position and swapped back, and that was even when both driver's had something on the line. In this case Max had nothing on the line, all the move would have done was bought him good favor with the team, Perez, and the fans. Instead he made himself look like an ass for at best a pyrrhic victory of principle.
 

g-magoo

Drag Racing Champion
However you shouldn't conflate thinking you are the fastest guy on the track with effectively flipping off your teammate due to a grudge about perceived behavior. I have seen plenty of races where two teammates were in that type of position and swapped back, and that was even when both driver's had something on the line.
e.g. Ham/Bottas, Hungary, 2017. The WDC very much so alive for multiple drivers at that point in the season too.
 

hans611

Lost
Saying the drivers are all that way is a gross oversimplification. Do they all think they are faster than everyone else, yes. Are they going to act with self interest, yes. Leclerc's request to have Ferrari tell Sainz to swap positions is proof of that. To this extent you are correct, the athletes need to have these traits as part of their personality to make it to this level in the sport.

However you shouldn't conflate thinking you are the fastest guy on the track with effectively flipping off your teammate due to a grudge about perceived behavior. I have seen plenty of races where two teammates were in that type of position and swapped back, and that was even when both driver's had something on the line. In this case Max had nothing on the line, all the move would have done was bought him good favor with the team, Perez, and the fans. Instead he made himself look like an ass for at best a pyrrhic victory of principle.

Obviously an oversimplification, but more true than not... @g-magoo put it better than I could, I meant the best single seater drivers for each respective team.... Most would not do good in endurance, etc....

That being said, I think it's wrong to the say F1 currently has the top 20 (19) drivers in the world; they are the 20 best drivers that make/made sense to the respective team that signed them.

Saying the drivers are all that way is a gross oversimplification. Do they all think they are faster than everyone else, yes. Are they going to act with self interest, yes. Leclerc's request to have Ferrari tell Sainz to swap positions is proof of that. To this extent you are correct, the athletes need to have these traits as part of their personality to make it to this level in the sport.

However you shouldn't conflate thinking you are the fastest guy on the track with effectively flipping off your teammate due to a grudge about perceived behavior. I have seen plenty of races where two teammates were in that type of position and swapped back, and that was even when both driver's had something on the line. In this case Max had nothing on the line, all the move would have done was bought him good favor with the team, Perez, and the fans. Instead he made himself look like an ass for at best a pyrrhic victory of principle.

Swapping positions is very rare in single seaters, you are thinking other motorsports. These guys race go karts, then smaller single seaters for a few years, and find themselves in an F1 car very quickly.... They are basically pay drivers their entire career before F1, first by their family/parents businesses/local club and then in Formula 3, they are still paid drivers through sponsors... Once they prove themselves, the teams looks at the driver market pool and out of all of them, chooses them. Their entire careers up to that point are pure selfishness, zero team play. If a driver in a lower formula is doing poorly and he doesn't have enough money, he doesn't drive... He never gets in the position in which he is asked to let an teammate for points, unless they are close in the race and different strategies, then maybe, but that means they are competitive with each other, so unlikely.... All these kart/single seater drivers are not used to team orders, it has to be drilled into their head and their contract like Felipe Massa or Rubinho Barichello
 

95gto

Go Kart Newbie
Obviously an oversimplification, but more true than not... @g-magoo put it better than I could, I meant the best single seater drivers for each respective team.... Most would not do good in endurance, etc....





Swapping positions is very rare in single seaters, you are thinking other motorsports. These guys race go karts, then smaller single seaters for a few years, and find themselves in an F1 car very quickly.... They are basically pay drivers their entire career before F1, first by their family/parents businesses/local club and then in Formula 3, they are still paid drivers through sponsors... Once they prove themselves, the teams looks at the driver market pool and out of all of them, chooses them. Their entire careers up to that point are pure selfishness, zero team play. If a driver in a lower formula is doing poorly and he doesn't have enough money, he doesn't drive... He never gets in the position in which he is asked to let an teammate for points, unless they are close in the race and different strategies, then maybe, but that means they are competitive with each other, so unlikely.... All these kart/single seater drivers are not used to team orders, it has to be drilled into their head and their contract like Felipe Massa or Rubinho Barichello

I have quite literally watched multiple F1 teams do the team ordered swap and then swap back; so no, I am not thinking of another motorsport. I have definitely seen driver's ignore team orders for self serving reasons, but this was not that. This was a dick move plain and simple and goes well above and beyond any "normal" racing driver personality quirks.

Anyway you do the math, Max shit the bed here. He is the team's golden boy and has been for several seasons now. So he has nothing to prove to the team by finishing ahead of his teammate. They quite literally could not care less. He had already clinched the WDC, so points were irrelevant to him. He wasn't asked to give up a podium, he was asked to give up 6th place. And even if Perez did crash during Q3 in Monaco on purpose, denying him the pass back wasn't proving anything to him. This action didn't teach Perez anything but resentment. Max quite literally chose a meaningless 6th place over instilling trust with the team and Perez, while also looking like a rock star to the fans. The right choice in this situation wasn't a tough call, and I think nearly any other driver in the field, if not all other drivers, would have made the right choice.
 

hans611

Lost
The drivers dont experience team orders during their entire single seater careers until they reach F1, thats my point, its not normal in the single seater world, Formula 1 is the exception because there is an actual championship pay out.. In all the single seater feeder series, including Formula 2, they themselves pay to drive, so why would they move aside and give "the team" points, when in single seaters "the team" is just the guys you pay though your sponsors to get to race..... Once in F1, it depends the driver and the team, and situation.. a kid freshly signed after winning F2 and put next to a world champion (Alonso v. Hamilton 2008) is not gonna move aside. Alex Albon on his 3rd year in a Williams racing hopelessly in the back, will. (Or a Felipe Massa on his 15th year in F1 driving the Williams in the back, etc)

I am just trying to get you to understand their state of mind.....
 

95gto

Go Kart Newbie
The drivers dont experience team orders during their entire single seater careers until they reach F1, thats my point, its not normal in the single seater world, Formula 1 is the exception because there is an actual championship pay out.. In all the single seater feeder series, including Formula 2, they themselves pay to drive, so why would they move aside and give "the team" points, when in single seaters "the team" is just the guys you pay though your sponsors to get to race..... Once in F1, it depends the driver and the team, and situation.. a kid freshly signed after winning F2 and put next to a world champion (Alonso v. Hamilton 2008) is not gonna move aside. Alex Albon on his 3rd year in a Williams racing hopelessly in the back, will. (Or a Felipe Massa on his 15th year in F1 driving the Williams in the back, etc)

I am just trying to get you to understand their state of mind.....

I think this makes perfect sense for a rookie, maybe even a second year driver. The only problem is that this negates the reality that any driver promoted to F1 will be educated on the differences at this level of racing versus what they experienced in the past. All a racing driver would have to do is watch F1 to understand that there is a team dynamic at play that has financial implications, however you can rest assured the drivers will get a first hand education on this from all directions. The team principle, the team strategist, their race engineer, their manager, their advisers, etc. will all be hammering home the point that F1 isn't the same animal as F2, F3, or any other racing series.

I also want to point out that your two examples completely reinforce what I said. The first example is of a young driver ignoring team orders because they have something to prove to the team. This doesn't apply to Max's situation. He has been in F1 for many years now and has been RB's chosen one for nearly all that time. He knows he has nothing to prove. Then the second example you gave was of a driver who has nothing to lose by following team orders, so they do. And this is exactly the situation Max was in, 6th place versus 7th place literally meant nothing to him. Yet he went ahead and ignored the orders. So your own examples establish that his behavior fell outside what would be expected of a regular driver. Max isn't new to F1, he isn't ignorant of how things work. He is just convinced the rules don't apply to him so he can do what he wants. And in Brazil he wanted to show his ass, so he did.
 

g-magoo

Drag Racing Champion
nah they def will employ team orders in F3 and F2 if you're on teams like HWA and Prema.
I'd be willing to bet those orders are not for 'The Team', feeder series do not receive prize money from the FIA for finishing in any specific position in their championships. They make money off the drivers and sponsors.
 
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