GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Assault Weapons Ban Bill

Status
Not open for further replies.

Corprin

Autocross Champion
So you understand...why saying the intent with the legislation is to ban items in common use...is against "the law..." and established court precedent?

The issues with recent court filings is not the banning of anything prospectively, rather their banning of items retrospectively. This is where due process steps in, and why the laws have been overruled.

Congress can ban what they want by codifying it into law. These bans can and have stuck as the GCA and 94 AWB proved. This is because they banned from date forward, and not touching what is already there. That is why those three provisions were written into this bill. By providing retrospective protection it seals up the potential due process violation.

So whatever intent to argue about my opinion or wrong think on the matter is meaningless. The proposed laws have been tried for multiple decades in large cities (the criminals, still criminal) and have failed to have any meaningful reduction in crime. Why is gun crime committed in gun free zones? Studies have been done on the previous 1994 AWB and found little to no affect.

The 94 AWB did have an effect on crime, and the FBI stats do show this, but in the sense of the rates after the ban was allowed to sunset. There are more factors playing into the increase in violent crime, but the extent and lethality of said crimes are rooted completely in the tools used.

Is the issue about curbing gun violence or being the authority on what people should or should not own? We would need to make policy on factual information, but facts on issues don't generally make the 11pm news. Legislating on actual FBI crime stats, would require analysis...the average congress critter cares little about.

I would agree, and ad that both sides should educate themselves on the subject. You keep bringing up the “taking away commonly held weapons” but are ignoring the diatribe about taking away the M1 Garand… even though this law would not take them off the table. I think he meant an M1 Carbine but I digress.

On violent crime as a whole...where is the data showing the rifle with a detachable magazine, a pistol grip, adjustable stock, etc... is the problem? If the problem was solely caused by availability of firearms...the swiss would have the same issue, violent crime is not a thing in japan...wonder why?

The features, magazine capacity, et.al is directly attributed to the numbers of casualties incurred from these weapons per event. This is reactionary. No way the Uvalde shooter killed so many had he been wielding anything less than a weapon specifically designed to kill as many humans in as short a time as possible. You can argue all you want about the AR, AK, FAL, etc lack of select fire, but the basic premise and design is present.

The Swiss and the Japanese are a tired old argument. The Swiss have significantly better public healthcare systems, to include access to mental health services. They also have greater self-responsibility ingrained in their culture and civic duty to maintain the greater good than the US.

Japan has violent crime, but if their culture and overall safety is any indication of what a nearly all out ban on firearms can do.. then take them all away. Both of three nations are apples to oranges compared to ours. We could only hope to rise to their level.

They usually continue to make run ins with law enforcement and continue demonstrate behavior and activities with little regard for law (what is the recidivism rate of offenders?).....and by truely knowing people, who other hang out with, and what they do to earn a living....can tell you about their character. Lead people for any length of time...you pick up tells the majority of people have...in a crowd they generally... people that have a certain figettly or completely disconnected behavior( an extreme)...doesn't mean they are a threat just someone to have SA on...

You would be shocked at what skeletons even your closest friends and acquaintances are hiding. You can assume but then…

That's great...hasn't data and studies shown the policy did little to nothing for crime reduction?

See above.

Sigh...sarcasm, but those laws can very state to state, but per federal law I believe FFLs are the only one required to report.. You're statement isn't 100 percent and may be fail-able..say it aint so.... I have never professed nor profess to be the arbiter of truth on the forum or thread, nor have I .... in general... posted alluding to constantly being the smartest or most well verse in the room om any discussed topic...
Doesn’t matter the state. If an official comes to remove your firearms from your possession, and you lie about them being lost when you are just hiding them, it’s a big nono. As there are firearms involved, it’s a federal crime.
Easily triggered by language? Excited to stereotype...
I’m not triggered by you, or your words. You just exhume all the campy stereotypes of someone who would argue the way you are.

Eager to stereotype, well, I’ve been trained and paid to do it for years, so, guilty?

According to FBI states gun crime is committed in Chicago, using handguns, by african american males...killing african american males, factual information racist? Never addressing the problem and continuing to call facts on issues racist attempts to stop diaglog....and it has nothing to do with skin color.... socioeconomics of broken families, and crappy school systems...caused by continued failed government policy...in general...usually policy championed by "the left", when data on years of failure and no progress is available...the continue to double down...on failure.

You citing the gun lobby talking points is not racist. The ease at which you use terms like “homie-cide” is likely stemming from at least latent racist ideals.

What's your actual question, adding a vertical grip to a pistol....makes it an NFA item, though you said you were familiar? Only legal with the government approved tithe...feel free to correct my misconception...telling me I am wrong about something with evidence doesn't make me REEEE,

You states that adding a forward grip to a pistol makes it a SBR if the barrel is under 16”. You then cite this as a fact. This is patently false. By adding a forward grip, at an angle to the longitudinal axis of the barrel, removes it from the definition of a hand-gun. This act changes the classification of the firearm, by definition you “manufactured” something new. As it does not meet any of the established definitions it is classified as a AOW, and subject to the NFA. It’s only a $5 stamp, so who cares, I assume most avoid it through ignorance of the process or fingerprints and deeper background check scare them off.


ATF has reinterpreted multiple pieces of equipment or ammo on a whim under multiple occasions....via letters....or memo...through exec fiat power they don't have or wield.

They do have that power because the laws say they do. These powers, however, are easily and often argued in lower courts, or flipped around by the secretary, a political appointee, at their whim.

Easy to keep making this statement....instead of actually refuting anything...

Only one up in the feels... is the one continually directing the conversion at or about me...feel free to ignore me at any time...or continue... to keep "righting" the forum threads...from subjective wrong think. Are you trying to marginalize me bro....

Righting the threads is an attempt to keep the misinformation from spreading. The OP posted about the bill going to take his guns away. It was corrected by a reading of the plain text of the bill. You started in with inflammatory language, false information, and a seemingly soon fed understanding of this bill, gun control talking points, or gun laws in general. It’s all good man, you do you.

Yes that’s me being dismissive and condescending. 😘

I hope the bill passes so I can listen to all the snowflakes melt down. 🤣
 

Superfreak

Go Kart Champion
I appreciate the articulation that some of you have. I‘m afraid I may lack the articulation and knowledge to add much value to the conversation. That being said, I’ll see if I can express a couple points to be considered. I don’t think that the general population needs the amazing killing machines that were once only available to the military. I think those weapons should be difficult to get and use.

Want to use an m16 or other military weapon? Want to be a patriot and fight the good fight? Go give up your freedom for some years and serve the country in our fine military. I do believe that gun ownership is fine, with proper training and understanding, but I don’t see that happening in our civilian world. It’s think it’s time to make military style weaponry more difficult to get.
 

crxgator

Autocross Newbie
I appreciate the articulation that some of you have. I‘m afraid I may lack the articulation and knowledge to add much value to the conversation. That being said, I’ll see if I can express a couple points to be considered. I don’t think that the general population needs the amazing killing machines that were once only available to the military. I think those weapons should be difficult to get and use.

Want to use an m16 or other military weapon? Want to be a patriot and fight the good fight? Go give up your freedom for some years and serve the country in our fine military. I do believe that gun ownership is fine, with proper training and understanding, but I don’t see that happening in our civilian world. It’s think it’s time to make military style weaponry more difficult to get.
There aren’t many people that own an M16.
 

tmw2442

Go Kart Champion
I appreciate the articulation that some of you have. I‘m afraid I may lack the articulation and knowledge to add much value to the conversation. That being said, I’ll see if I can express a couple points to be considered. I don’t think that the general population needs the amazing killing machines that were once only available to the military. I think those weapons should be difficult to get and use.

Want to use an m16 or other military weapon? Want to be a patriot and fight the good fight? Go give up your freedom for some years and serve the country in our fine military. I do believe that gun ownership is fine, with proper training and understanding, but I don’t see that happening in our civilian world. It’s think it’s time to make military style weaponry more difficult to get.
amazing killing machine... a gun is a tool that only does what someone tells it do it. A firearm does not make an individual commit a crime...police use the same tool to stop crime. "Good" or "Evil" is the choice of the individual...most of the mass shooting events... the individuals display behavior multiple times and were overlooked by family and law enforcement. Most have been prescribed and used SSRIs....
History is full of examples were populations have been disarmed and a great number of causality events happen. Governments have the sole monopoly on force generally doesn't work well for the populous
"once only of available to the military". They want to ban the AR-15, which is not select fire ie not the military version, but leave the M1 alone?
Any machine gun(full auto....select fire) purchase requires "enhanced screening" to own.
Society has changed over the last 40 years(more broken homes, single parent households, kids out of wedlock and family court using children as a legal system tool)...the firearm really has not. Mass shootings are a symptom of larger societal problems. Some European cities have just as much or more violent crimes via stabbing, using vehicles to run people over, bombings, acid attacks...etc. Criminals unfortunately are going to find a way to criminal...
FBI data shows overwhelming homicide by gun is committed with pistols...over the last 10 years around 80,000 with handguns (again mostly gang violence in larger cities...) vs 3,300 using rifles. As much as some want to be authoritarian, or say this is a talking point. The FBI data is the best facts we have readily available, but you are still entitled to believe whatever you want and make personal decisions about your property however you see fit...most just ask for the same courtesy in return. The same individuals who would like you not to be armed or have access to firearms and walking around 24/7 with armed guards, with the same firearms...whether you have serviced in the military or not...should not restrict what rights you have....
 
Last edited:

Superfreak

Go Kart Champion
amazing killing machine... a gun is a tool that only does what someone tells it do it. A firearm does not make an individual commit a crime...police use the same tool to stop crime
History is full of examples were populations have been disarmed and a great number of causality events happen. Governments have the sole monoply on force generally doesn't work well for the populous
"once only of available to the military". They want to ban the AR-15, which is not select fire ie not the military version, but leave the M1 alone?
Any machine gun(full auto....select fire) purchase requires "enhanced screening" to own.
Society has changed over the last 40 years...the firearm really has not.
FBI data shows overwhelming homicide by gun is committed with pistols...over the last 10 years around 80,000 with handguns (again mostly gang violence in larger cities...) vs 3,300 using rifles. As much as some want to be authoritarian, or say this is a talking point. The FBI data is the best facts we have readily available, but you are still entitled to believe whatever you want and make personal decisions about your property however you see fit...
We gotta start somewhere, this gun culture is stressing me out. No need for everyone to be armed all the time.

Fun fact, full auto is stupidly inaccurate as you probably know. If I ever want to put accurate shots down range, the selector goes to semi.

It seems really difficult to mitigate what type of weapon should be allowed to the general population, as we have a very open market. I’d love to see a very difficult path to gun ownership that is only allowed after a long, diligent training and understanding of what responsible gun ownership actually entails.
 

crxgator

Autocross Newbie

tmw2442

Go Kart Champion
When immates in jails are surveyed about the crime. Over 2/3 said they would not have attempted the crime or would haved picked a different victim if the would have thought they where armed... Just like the highest causality event mass shootings are done in "gun free zones". The attacker picks a victim most likely not armed or where resistance is minimal.... We didn't ban aircraft after 9/11...we secured aircraft cockpits...
 
Last edited:

tmw2442

Go Kart Champion
We gotta start somewhere, this gun culture is stressing me out. No need for everyone to be armed all the time.

Fun fact, full auto is stupidly inaccurate as you probably know. If I ever want to put accurate shots down range, the selector goes to semi.

It seems really difficult to mitigate what type of weapon should be allowed to the general population, as we have a very open market. I’d love to see a very difficult path to gun ownership that is only allowed after a long, diligent training and understanding of what responsible gun ownership actually entails.
Awesome...how do you amend the constitution?
Whether you are personally stressed about "gun culture" and whether you believe people should arm, in general it's, not up to you to control what others do in the bounds of law. You have the right to say what you want, just like other's have the right to purchase and carry firearms. Regardless of personal feelings, mutual respect for others is key. In my opinion. People may believe "they are only used to kill" either by hollywood or narrative....

Hundreds of millions of firearms everyday...regardless of their features or configuration...don't go off committing crimes everyday...it just a tool. Firearms are used against people committing crimes...it firearms didn't work as a tool to stop crime, defend, or protect ...why do the police use them? Why our political class be guarded with them...?
 
Last edited:

jay745

track sl00t
We gotta start somewhere, this gun culture is stressing me out. No need for everyone to be armed all the time.

Fun fact, full auto is stupidly inaccurate as you probably know. If I ever want to put accurate shots down range, the selector goes to semi.

It seems really difficult to mitigate what type of weapon should be allowed to the general population, as we have a very open market. I’d love to see a very difficult path to gun ownership that is only allowed after a long, diligent training and understanding of what responsible gun ownership actually entails.
..... So a person that doesn't know the difference between a full auto (assault rifle) and a semi auto rifle but still calls them an assault rifle even though it's the same as a single shot hunting rifle with black dressing....owns a full auto that can switch back to semi "at the range"????

Ok🙄🙄🙄
 

tmw2442

Go Kart Champion
..... So a person that doesn't know the difference between a full auto (assault rifle) and a semi auto rifle but still calls them an assault rifle even though it's the same as a single shot hunting rifle with black dressing....owns a full auto that can switch back to semi "at the range"????

Ok🙄🙄🙄
Be nice...at least he is willing to have a discussion... assault rifle still generally a made up term...that the powers still try to mold to the definition of "anything we don't like..." you seem them start to pivot to semi-automatic....assault rifle...if it has these features....

I've seen what people cheer for...so in general there boos about my opinion on the subject mean very little to me...
 
Last edited:

okMK

Autocross Champion
Meh, most of the stuff they're banning in this bill is stupid anyway. If your glock has a 30 round magazine, you're a goon. If you have a threaded barrel and muzzle brake on a pistol you carry every day, you're a goon. If you have a red dot on your EDC, you're a goon. All any of that does is slow down your draw. A properly trained user with multiple normal sized magazines is far more effective.
 

tmw2442

Go Kart Champion
Meh, most of the stuff they're banning in this bill is stupid anyway. If your glock has a 30 round magazine, you're a goon. If you have a threaded barrel and muzzle brake on a pistol you carry every day, you're a goon. If you have a red dot on your EDC, you're a goon. All any of that does is slow down your draw. A properly trained user with multiple normal sized magazines is far more effective.
So who really cares...if someone wants to configure anything the way they see fit....let them goon...their use case for their pistol may be different...or the may be an idiot. It's just like people putting big brake kits, and aero on their hatchback...to go to the drive thru....or lowering their car to the ground and vaping....
 

Superfreak

Go Kart Champion
..... So a person that doesn't know the difference between a full auto (assault rifle) and a semi auto rifle but still calls them an assault rifle even though it's the same as a single shot hunting rifle with black dressing....owns a full auto that can switch back to semi "at the range"????

Ok🙄🙄🙄
Yeah sorry I’m not being articulate, though even when I don’t have covid I still struggle to form coherent thoughts or sentences.

I was just alluding to full auto not being necessary and many of the country don’t know that automatic capable weapons aren’t that effective unless you need suppressive fire (Unless you’re just shooting into a crowd). Let’s steer away from the term “assault weapon” as it could mean anything and everything including me with a stick or stone.

Automatic weapons are not necessary for any civilian, so that’s an easy ban from my perspective. Semi-automatic weapons are more difficult, because there are so many guns out in the market that are semi-automatic, which is why I think we see a focus on limiting magazine capacity. Since magazines changes are pretty quick and easy, I don’t think that would stop someone that’s well trained/ practiced. It would, however, stop the untrained from getting so many rounds out in a short amount of time. Those that are trained are generally not going to use the weapon in such a way. I’m good with more rules to weed out the young, untrained, uneducated, and unworthy.

Sorry for the foggy brain.
 

tmw2442

Go Kart Champion
Does the military buying glock 17s, Sig 320s, automatically make it a "weapon of war..."

I can identify any of those characteristics in anyone or about anything by moving the proverbial goal post wherever I want? Who makes the determination of untrained, uneducated, and unworthy? Completely to opinion? Whos?

One could also say the make the same arguments about voting....

If you really want to curb the shooting generally done by young men...(the majority percentage come from broken families...with no positive male influence in their lives, and perpetrated almost solely in marked gun free zones...(meaning know little resistance to the actions) or gang/drug(using mostly illegally acquired) related in large metro areas. Making new law to restrict the general law abiding (people who own guns, and have carry permits), does little to curb the issue at hand.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top