8
Credit where credit is due.
- Thread starter 1st Gen
- Start date
1st Gen
Passed Driver's Ed
This is the funniest thing I have seen in weeks. You should sign it.
1st Gen
Passed Driver's Ed
I'm sure the guy that wrote this won't mind that I just copied it from his howto.
But just in case, outofphase
Want to run E30? Here's a FAQ!
I've seen a lot of questions pop up regarding running ethanol mixes on the N55 platform and, having done an obscene amount of research myself (and having run E30 for the last 2 months) I figured I'd post up a FAQ. I'm not an expert, but this info is coming from research and from people who I trust, and it's also already scattered all over the forum -- this is just an effort to consolidate it so it's easier for those searching. If you have something to contribute, please do!
Do I need fueling upgrades to run E30?
No. However the general consensus is that anything above a 30% mixture requires additional fueling upgrades.
Note: There was a recall for the LPFP on some 13-14 N55 cars, it's a good idea to check and make sure yours has been taken care of prior to running E30.
Does E30 offer additional power over 93 octane?
Yes! But only with a tune. Ethanol by itself doesn't increase power -- it increases the octane (resistance to knock) and allows for more timing and/or boost to be run safely. According to PTF on EWG cars we can expect gains of ~50whp with the OTS Stage 2 E30 map over the OTS Stage 2 93 oct map.
Do I need to be tuned for E30 to run it?
To take advantage of it, yes. Otherwise there's no real point, and your MPG's will suffer without the benefit of increased power. However, if you only have access to poor quality gasoline and you're experiencing timing being pulled on your current map, running a couple gallons may help without necessitating a tune.
How do I calculate my mix?
This is where E30 gets annoying. Generally, you should pick a gas station (top tier if available) that carries both E85 and 93 octane. Test the ethanol content of both the E85 and 93, separately. The best way to do this is using a graduated cylinder test. 93 octane usually has some ethanol in it, up to 10%, and E85 can vary wildly. I've personally seen anywhere from E75 to E90, and I've also seen reports of it reaching E60 in some cases. Generally you only want to fill up at gas stations that you've tested. After you have your percentages, use this calculator:
http://www.georgebelton.com/E85Calculator.php
According to most sources (including CaryTheLabelGuy and proTUNING Freaks) your best bet is to wait until your gauge reads "--" before filling up with your blend for the first time. This is the closest to 1 gallon being left in the tank. Be sure to account for that gallon in your calculations!
How often should I test the fuel at my station of choice?
I recommend once a month. I'm actually in the process of finding a different gas station, due to mine changing the ethanol content of both E85 and 93 frequently.
Do I need a flex fuel sensor?
No. It's nice to have as a backup, however these sensors aren't known to be 100% accurate and can actually show water (or anything other than gasoline) as ethanol. The graduated cylinder test is the most accurate.
Is it better err on the side of more ethanol or less ethanol than E30?
If you're guesstimating (as I did when I first filled up, or when I fill up after running a tank of 93 through), it's better to err on the side of more. Your E30 tune is going to be expecting a certain amount of knock resistance and you want to ensure that it's met. In other words, if you have to choose between E35 or E25 (for an E30 tune), go with E35.
Will my fuel economy suffer?
Yes. However, keep in mind that E85 is generally substantially cheaper than 93. It's a trade off, like anything else. For instance, at my station, 93 is usually right around $4/gallon, and E85 is right around $2.60.
Will running E30 damage my car's components?
This is a hot topic of debate, and there's a lot of misinformation floating around on the internet (often mixed in with good information!) -- the reality is that there are a ton of variables that determine whether or not E85 can/will hurt your car. How it was transported and stored prior to being available at the pump, how much of the ethanol is still suspended, what the water content is, how dirty your engine was prior to running ethanol... I could go on forever. I'll leave it up to you to do some research and decide for yourself if you're comfortable with the risk.
A general rule of thumb I like to follow is to run a full tank of straight 93 octane through the car once every 3,000 miles. I also won't let the car sit with E30 in the tank for more than a day or two.
I'm running E30 now. What's next?
Datalog! And datalog regularly! Some general things to keep an eye on are your HPFP numbers, LPFP numbers, ignition timing, and knock detection. If you don't know how to read a datalog, you can always post it on the forums and people are always glad to help.
I hope this was helpful. Like I said, if anyone has anything else they think is worth adding, please contribute!
But just in case, outofphase
Want to run E30? Here's a FAQ!
I've seen a lot of questions pop up regarding running ethanol mixes on the N55 platform and, having done an obscene amount of research myself (and having run E30 for the last 2 months) I figured I'd post up a FAQ. I'm not an expert, but this info is coming from research and from people who I trust, and it's also already scattered all over the forum -- this is just an effort to consolidate it so it's easier for those searching. If you have something to contribute, please do!
Do I need fueling upgrades to run E30?
No. However the general consensus is that anything above a 30% mixture requires additional fueling upgrades.
Note: There was a recall for the LPFP on some 13-14 N55 cars, it's a good idea to check and make sure yours has been taken care of prior to running E30.
Does E30 offer additional power over 93 octane?
Yes! But only with a tune. Ethanol by itself doesn't increase power -- it increases the octane (resistance to knock) and allows for more timing and/or boost to be run safely. According to PTF on EWG cars we can expect gains of ~50whp with the OTS Stage 2 E30 map over the OTS Stage 2 93 oct map.
Do I need to be tuned for E30 to run it?
To take advantage of it, yes. Otherwise there's no real point, and your MPG's will suffer without the benefit of increased power. However, if you only have access to poor quality gasoline and you're experiencing timing being pulled on your current map, running a couple gallons may help without necessitating a tune.
How do I calculate my mix?
This is where E30 gets annoying. Generally, you should pick a gas station (top tier if available) that carries both E85 and 93 octane. Test the ethanol content of both the E85 and 93, separately. The best way to do this is using a graduated cylinder test. 93 octane usually has some ethanol in it, up to 10%, and E85 can vary wildly. I've personally seen anywhere from E75 to E90, and I've also seen reports of it reaching E60 in some cases. Generally you only want to fill up at gas stations that you've tested. After you have your percentages, use this calculator:
http://www.georgebelton.com/E85Calculator.php
According to most sources (including CaryTheLabelGuy and proTUNING Freaks) your best bet is to wait until your gauge reads "--" before filling up with your blend for the first time. This is the closest to 1 gallon being left in the tank. Be sure to account for that gallon in your calculations!
How often should I test the fuel at my station of choice?
I recommend once a month. I'm actually in the process of finding a different gas station, due to mine changing the ethanol content of both E85 and 93 frequently.
Do I need a flex fuel sensor?
No. It's nice to have as a backup, however these sensors aren't known to be 100% accurate and can actually show water (or anything other than gasoline) as ethanol. The graduated cylinder test is the most accurate.
Is it better err on the side of more ethanol or less ethanol than E30?
If you're guesstimating (as I did when I first filled up, or when I fill up after running a tank of 93 through), it's better to err on the side of more. Your E30 tune is going to be expecting a certain amount of knock resistance and you want to ensure that it's met. In other words, if you have to choose between E35 or E25 (for an E30 tune), go with E35.
Will my fuel economy suffer?
Yes. However, keep in mind that E85 is generally substantially cheaper than 93. It's a trade off, like anything else. For instance, at my station, 93 is usually right around $4/gallon, and E85 is right around $2.60.
Will running E30 damage my car's components?
This is a hot topic of debate, and there's a lot of misinformation floating around on the internet (often mixed in with good information!) -- the reality is that there are a ton of variables that determine whether or not E85 can/will hurt your car. How it was transported and stored prior to being available at the pump, how much of the ethanol is still suspended, what the water content is, how dirty your engine was prior to running ethanol... I could go on forever. I'll leave it up to you to do some research and decide for yourself if you're comfortable with the risk.
A general rule of thumb I like to follow is to run a full tank of straight 93 octane through the car once every 3,000 miles. I also won't let the car sit with E30 in the tank for more than a day or two.
I'm running E30 now. What's next?
Datalog! And datalog regularly! Some general things to keep an eye on are your HPFP numbers, LPFP numbers, ignition timing, and knock detection. If you don't know how to read a datalog, you can always post it on the forums and people are always glad to help.
I hope this was helpful. Like I said, if anyone has anything else they think is worth adding, please contribute!
1st Gen
Passed Driver's Ed
Not to be confused with experiential advice, like should I change my oil. An idea or discovery like, I can use an LSD that came stock in certain model cars that I can find in the j/y to save myself tons of money and get a better ride.
Yea, somebody did this in the Protege forums. Those of us who were there know, but his name was never mentioned again. (that I saw) What incentive does anybody have to share their intellectual work? I don't think we need copywrite laws, ---how about this. Acadia18, Lord of Memes and Autocross!
Yea, somebody did this in the Protege forums. Those of us who were there know, but his name was never mentioned again. (that I saw) What incentive does anybody have to share their intellectual work? I don't think we need copywrite laws, ---how about this. Acadia18, Lord of Memes and Autocross!
1st Gen
Passed Driver's Ed
Lord of memes and autocross, and keeper of the sacred lols.