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Gas Quality Debate Shell, Petro, etc.

JUMB3E

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Toronto
Car(s)
2018 Golf R 6MT
Just saw this 3 part series posted by Vancity Audi on Youtube.

I was all set to get a custom tune on Shell 91, but now I'm second guessing my fuel choice after watching this series of tests.

What are your thoughts on this, and do you think the fuel out East is as bad as the fuel out West? What fuel do you guys run?

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:
 

RobertJG25

Go Kart Champion
Location
Niagara Falls, ON
Car(s)
2019 VW Golf 1.4 TSI
When I first got my Golf I used Canadian Tire 87, then I switched to 91 and I didn't genuinely feel a huge difference in acceleration but it did seem to idle more smoothly. I then switched to Shell 91 and I did notice stronger acceleration afterwards. Maybe it took a couple months to finally realize I was putting in 91, or Canadian Tire's gas isn't as good as Shell's, which wouldn't surprise me seeing as Canadian Tire is not a 'Top Tier' gas. Having said that, seeing as Petro 94 is available at all of the stations near me I'm going to try that out for a few weeks moving forward... I somehow didn't even realize Petro 94 was a thing :ROFLMAO: This all being said, depening on the price and for the winter, I'll likely end up just filling up with Costco 91, as they are also a Top Tier brand.

The only thing causing me some concern from the videos is a 4 hp and 5 ft lbs drop when going from Chevron 92 to 94... that's probably a negligible amount in reality but still odd it went down with a higher octane fuel.
 

dunkelweizen

Go Kart Newbie
Just saw this 3 part series posted by Vancity Audi on Youtube.

I was all set to get a custom tune on Shell 91, but now I'm second guessing my fuel choice after watching this series of tests.

What are your thoughts on this, and do you think the fuel out East is as bad as the fuel out West? What fuel do you guys run?

Wow, thanks for sharing. That is eye opening. I've heard very bad things about Shell before, but it was more environment and ethics (lack of) related. I've always used PetroCan SuperGreen 94 and Sunoco Ultra94 (before PetroCan bought them out in Canada & consolidated the branding) and definitely noticed a difference when using 94 vs any 91 on my old Civic Si when it would audibly knock at low RPM loads anytime I used less than 94. On my Mk7 GTI, the butt dyno can't really tell any difference between 94 vs 91. Never used Shell 91 on my GTI, and not about to start after watching those videos... 0.o

Too bad they don't have Esso 93 out there. Would be curious to see how that would stack up against Petro 94.

Just curious - you are on EQT stage2 tune and have ready, easy access to Petro 94 - why would you not use that instead of looking at custom tune on Shell 91?
 

dunkelweizen

Go Kart Newbie
When I first got my Golf I used Canadian Tire 87, then I switched to 91 and I didn't genuinely feel a huge difference in acceleration but it did seem to idle more smoothly. I then switched to Shell 91 and I did notice stronger acceleration afterwards. Maybe it took a couple months to finally realize I was putting in 91, or Canadian Tire's gas isn't as good as Shell's, which wouldn't surprise me seeing as Canadian Tire is not a 'Top Tier' gas. Having said that, seeing as Petro 94 is available at all of the stations near me I'm going to try that out for a few weeks moving forward... I somehow didn't even realize Petro 94 was a thing :ROFLMAO: This all being said, depening on the price and for the winter, I'll likely end up just filling up with Costco 91, as they are also a Top Tier brand.

The only thing causing me some concern from the videos is a 4 hp and 5 ft lbs drop when going from Chevron 92 to 94... that's probably a negligible amount in reality but still odd it went down with a higher octane fuel.

Costco 91 is a safe bet - if you can brave the line ups - though obviously less of a problem these days.

It is very interesting that US Chevron 92 performs almost equally to Canada Chevron 94. When I was looking at tunes, I distinctly remember Ed from EQT saying to stay far away from Chevron gas as it would consistently cause knock and timing issues, yet here we have a case of the Chev 92 being about equal to the Chev 94. Don't know if that means the Chev 92 in WA state is really good or the Chev 94 in Canada is really crap...
 

JUMB3E

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Toronto
Car(s)
2018 Golf R 6MT
I was only considering tuning on the 91 for simplicity sake and in case a scenario came up with no 94 around. I also heard initially that the power difference would be marginal between tuning on 91 vs 94. But, it seems like the ethanol blended fuels are performing significantly better from the video and from what I'm told from EQT. I figure I'm just going to custom tune on petro 94 and keep some octane booster with me if I ever take a road trip and worried about not finding petro 94.
 

CarlosCanizares

Autocross Newbie
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf R
Wow, thanks for this!

I was a Shell loyalist with my JB1 - 92 at Blaine before the Pandemic and 91 during.

Since going stage 2, I’ve been Chevron 94 (sometimes with E85 from COOP) but haven’t driven the R in awhile due to hibernation.
 

dunkelweizen

Go Kart Newbie
I was only considering tuning on the 91 for simplicity sake and in case a scenario came up with no 94 around. I also heard initially that the power difference would be marginal between tuning on 91 vs 94. But, it seems like the ethanol blended fuels are performing significantly better from the video and from what I'm told from EQT. I figure I'm just going to custom tune on petro 94 and keep some octane booster with me if I ever take a road trip and worried about not finding petro 94.

That was my exact concern also, but between being able to go back to stock tune, drop to COBB OTS 91 tune temporarily or as you said having a bottle of octane booster in the car for those road trip contingencies - I just went with the EQT 93 tune.

Thanks again for sharing those vids. Still can't believe the massive difference between the fuels.
 

edstigator

New member
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Car(s)
2019 Golf R 6Spd
Thanks for sharing this. I’ve heard very similar things before about shell, but that was mostly from diesel guys.

I’ve been running either petro 91 or 94 or ultramar 91 or 94. I prefer the ultramar but they are sometimes tougher to find. Not only do I get better mileage but I find the car responds a little better, especially at various points across the seasonal weather we get. I’ve been running both fuels on prior cars (Audi s5 and bmw 335i) and found the experience to be the same as I’m getting with my R.

For reference I’m running an eqt stage 2 91 tune, prior to that was Cobb stage 1. The car has been run on either petro or ultramar since I purchased it in nov 2019.
 

Clem604

Autocross Champion
Location
Vancouver BC, Canada
Car(s)
2018 VW GTI
I figure I'm just going to custom tune on petro 94 and keep some octane booster with me if I ever take a road trip and worried about not finding petro 94.
I'm still not sure why they decided to take Petro 94 from us west coasters but I usually fill up exclusively with Shell 91. That being said after these video's i will try Chevron 94 for a bit and see if I notice any differences.
 

Dog Dad Wagon

Autocross Champion
Location
Go Birds
Car(s)
16 Touareg TDI
Why is nobody mentioning that he’s comparing 91 to 94? There’s a 3 octane difference there. Even if the fuel had identical water, particulate, and detergent contents, a 3 octane delta can reasonably explain the performance between the two fuels.

It’s just not an apples to apples comparison so I don’t feel like it carries much weight.

a better experiment would be shell 91 v shell 94, 2 tanks of both grades from 2 different stations. Then chevron 91 v 94. Same as before.

then you have multiple data points for different octanes from different stations on both brands. Then you can objectively map it all out.

make it even better - do it with different cars.
 

CarlosCanizares

Autocross Newbie
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf R
Shell doesn't have 94 in BC. What he's explaining is specific to BC residents because mostly everyone (including tuners) have said Shell 91 is better than Chevron 94.
 

CarlosCanizares

Autocross Newbie
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf R
I'm still not sure why they decided to take Petro 94 from us west coasters but I usually fill up exclusively with Shell 91. That being said after these video's i will try Chevron 94 for a bit and see if I notice any differences.

Because they're the centre of the universe. All we've done is have the best kind of weather in the country ;)
 

dunkelweizen

Go Kart Newbie
Why is nobody mentioning that he’s comparing 91 to 94? There’s a 3 octane difference there. Even if the fuel had identical water, particulate, and detergent contents, a 3 octane delta can reasonably explain the performance between the two fuels.

It’s just not an apples to apples comparison so I don’t feel like it carries much weight.

a better experiment would be shell 91 v shell 94, 2 tanks of both grades from 2 different stations. Then chevron 91 v 94. Same as before.

then you have multiple data points for different octanes from different stations on both brands. Then you can objectively map it all out.

make it even better - do it with different cars.


You're totally right about it being not apples to apples. However, the US Chevron92 did perform better than the BC Chevron94 in those tests and I would think that the difference between 91 and 94 should only be about 10-15hp (if at all, as car is on factory tune), not 40-50hp.

And as @CarlosCanizares said, it obliterates the myth - perpetuated by local tuners there - of Shell91 being better than Chevron94.
 

CarlosCanizares

Autocross Newbie
Location
Surrey, BC, Canada
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf R
I started using Shell 91 after Johnny from RPI Equipped told me that's what local tuners prefer (after a conversation with Marcel with HPA). This was in 2017.

When I had my work done at HPA a few months ago, I asked them and their number 1 choice was Blaine Shell 92. Pre-COVID, that was my go-to thanks to my Nexus. Post-COVID and HPA work, I started using Chev 94 because HPA suggested I switch because the borders were closed.
 

vlowbeta

New member
Location
BC
I'm local to the Lower Mainland of BC, home to the worst gas in Canada. For reference, I'm running a MK7 R with EQT Stage 1, 91.

Prior to the borders closing, all I ran was 92 Washington blend, which is e10.. my logs were quite clean and the car ran solid.

When that was removed as an option, I filled with Shell 91 and ran a log... all I can say is YIKES.. I was seeing -4 / -5 corrections, across all cylinders, at full throttle. The EQT maps are way, WAY too hot for our sh!t gas in BC and it's not even close. I previously logged Shell 91 and Chev 94 on a JB4 and found them about the same, both being inferior to 92 E10 from Washington but still looking reasonably safe (21 psi on the JB4 vs 28 psi on EQT).

I asked EQT about a low-torque version of their OTS map.. they are not interested in providing the option and suggested a pro-tune. I considered it, but TBH $500 USD for a dumbed down, lower power map on a mechanically stock car didn't seem that compelling to me. If I was going with a pro-tune, I would probably want to upgrade the DP and IC.. but I just want to keep it simple with this car right now and feel the 'bang for the buck' falls off very quickly after the massive stage 1 returns.

The issue we have here, is that all of our supreme gas is ZERO ethanol (caveat below). We absolutely cannot compare our gas to any locale where ethanol is blended into the supreme.. it's just apples and oranges.. or apples and monkey pi$$.

One interesting point relates to Chevron.. I have spoken to a few Chevron attendants and I understand that they only have two in-ground tanks, even though they have 87, 89, 91 and 94 octane pumps. I was told that the two tanks hold 87 and 94.. 87 will contain ethanol. The 94, as is the case with all supreme gas locally , has zero ethanol. I am defining supreme gas as being the highest octane offered at a given station.. Chev 91 is therefore not supreme, even though 91 Shell is (since Shell has nothing higher).

I was told that the 89 and 91 Chevron pumps are actually blending 87 and 94 gas from the in-ground tanks.. therefore, the 91 Chevron gas should theoretically contain some ethanol and therefore it should be superior to any non-ethanol version of 91 (Shell, Petro Can etc).

I haven't logged Chev 91, but it would be interesting to see the results.. Regardless of whether it's better than other 91 offerings in BC, I know it won't be as good as what I am doing personally: Blending ethanol into the pump gas myself, like a complete OCD nutjob (having to organize the logistics of jerry cans, e85, planning fill-ups etc. seems pretty damn whacky for a daily driven Golf R). If I was filling up once a week, I don't know if it would be worth it to me, but I really haven't been driving a whole lot this past year.

The good news is that when blending either Shell 91 or Chev 94 up to about E13-E15, the logs are PERFECT. I mean, zero corrections, anywhere in the rev range under full throttle.

For those of you in BC without the option of buying some ethanol and blending.. I would say you're looking at a pro-tune, or staying stock. I would be very cautious of running any OTS maps, with our horrible pump gas.

Cheers
 
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