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Search for RWD Track/Weekend Car (70k Budget)

bentin

Autocross Champion
The ND is brilliant, especially with the newer motor. I don't like the standard or Bilstein suspension, but if you're not doing true Spec class, it's super easy to fix, and the upgraded Brembos seem to hold up fairly well with a fluid and pad change. You can upgrade the diff fairly cheaply from the standard torsen to a gear based one that really improves things too. I assume you know they have a pretty lively forum too. If I had the space for a third car, I'd have an ND immediately.
 

tpellegr

Go Kart Champion
Yeah. Joined the forums a while back and been lurking and learning. Great group of people and seems like an awesome little car.
 

tpellegr

Go Kart Champion
ZL1 1LE, hands down my first pick. They’re absolute weapons on the track right off the showroom floor
Hard to argue with that. They punch well above their weight. Rode in one during an autocross event and was very impressed. Just not sure I want to own a Camaro.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
I've also considered ditching the gti in favor of a proper track car several times. There's really not much out there that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to drive on track. The gt350 and zl1 are decent cars, but I can come close to touching their times in the gti and they would run me at least 15k$/season compared to the gti's 6-7k. You also have far fewer options in tire choice and brake choice. Just make sure you don't get carbon ceramic brakes or you'll be paying 15k/yr for brakes alone.

Much better options would be a cayman, a boxster, Elise, exige (whoever said they understeer just doesn't know how to drive them... Just like every mid or rear engine car you HAVE to trail brake to get that weight to transfer forward for rotation. Coming from an mqb car is a good learning step), an old miata, spec e30, spec e36, spec miata, spec boxster, or a spec z.

I generally go through 2-3 sets of tires and 3 sets of brake pads/rotors per year. Add to that the fluids, other faster maintenance items and things that break, and the gti pushes the 6-7k/yr mark quickly. Real costs per weekend are typically 1.3k. A miata is 30% cheaper, a spec boxster 75-100% more, and something like a grandsport corvette (only one worth owning for a track car right now) will be 200% more.
 

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
I've also considered ditching the gti in favor of a proper track car several times. There's really not much out there that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to drive on track. The gt350 and zl1 are decent cars, but I can come close to touching their times in the gti and they would run me at least 15k$/season compared to the gti's 6-7k. You also have far fewer options in tire choice and brake choice. Just make sure you don't get carbon ceramic brakes or you'll be paying 15k/yr for brakes alone.

Much better options would be a cayman, a boxster, Elise, exige (whoever said they understeer just doesn't know how to drive them... Just like every mid or rear engine car you HAVE to trail brake to get that weight to transfer forward for rotation. Coming from an mqb car is a good learning step), an old miata, spec e30, spec e36, spec miata, spec boxster, or a spec z.

I generally go through 2-3 sets of tires and 3 sets of brake pads/rotors per year. Add to that the fluids, other faster maintenance items and things that break, and the gti pushes the 6-7k/yr mark quickly. Real costs per weekend are typically 1.3k. A miata is 30% cheaper, a spec boxster 75-100% more, and something like a grandsport corvette (only one worth owning for a track car right now) will be 200% more.
Agree with all of that, I dumped a ton of money into my gti to make it a track car - but now I can keep up with the big boys and it's fun being an underdog. This past weekend running the advanced group at Grattan I was setup next to a vette and camaro guys, we were talking and they were ~1-2 seconds faster than me. They were both on a7's and I was on RS4 street tires :) Lots to do with the driver at that point but still put a smile on my face.
 

M3bs1

Go Kart Champion
Tracking anything more than a Miata gets expensive. Adding power and/or weight means more gas, more tires, and more brakes. My ZLE went through $258 in gas for a two day event at VIR, at just about 1 gallon per lap. Tires are about $1500, and might make it through two weekends depending on the track and driver.

There’s a lot to be said for being the underdog. Much more satisfying to run down the big boys in my 26 year old M3. It’s also a lot cheaper to operate. Tires are half the price and last longer. 8 mpg vs 3.4 in the Camaro. No need for track insurance at $375 per weekend. So far, at least, I’ve only been able to beat my lap times in the M3 by less than a second at the three tracks I run. Still on a learning curve with the Z.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Agree with all of that, I dumped a ton of money into my gti to make it a track car - but now I can keep up with the big boys and it's fun being an underdog. This past weekend running the advanced group at Grattan I was setup next to a vette and camaro guys, we were talking and they were ~1-2 seconds faster than me. They were both on a7's and I was on RS4 street tires :) Lots to do with the driver at that point but still put a smile on my face.
Totally agree. Every street car except for a lotus or a Porsche will need 4-5k to get rolling on a track with an experienced driver, but the cheap cars like the gti don't continue to cost crazy amounts. I love it when I can hang with a fully built e46 m3 racecar for 3-4 laps, or with a gt2rs for half a lap, lol. My best experience was a slow ego guy in a z06 telling me he couldn't believe I passed him and a really humble guy in a gt2rs telling him he couldn't walk away from me in the Porsche. The secret is it took everything the car had to keep up with that German missile, and my tires, brakes, oil, water, and chassis heat/flex were at the limit. I think oil was 285 on a 70* day WITH the oil cooler. Car pulled so much timing down the straight I ran at 90mph instead of 125,lol.

All this being said, I don't know what the reliability of the gti will be after all this abuse, but it seems to be doing alright so far, and the electronic ninnies do a good job of keeping me from blowing it up when I overheat it!
 

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
Totally agree. Every street car except for a lotus or a Porsche will need 4-5k to get rolling on a track with an experienced driver, but the cheap cars like the gti don't continue to cost crazy amounts. I love it when I can hang with a fully built e46 m3 racecar for 3-4 laps, or with a gt2rs for half a lap, lol. My best experience was a slow ego guy in a z06 telling me he couldn't believe I passed him and a really humble guy in a gt2rs telling him he couldn't walk away from me in the Porsche. The secret is it took everything the car had to keep up with that German missile, and my tires, brakes, oil, water, and chassis heat/flex were at the limit. I think oil was 285 on a 70* day WITH the oil cooler. Car pulled so much timing down the straight I ran at 90mph instead of 125,lol.

All this being said, I don't know what the reliability of the gti will be after all this abuse, but it seems to be doing alright so far, and the electronic ninnies do a good job of keeping me from blowing it up when I overheat it!
I've done about 50 track days and a number of autocross with my gti, I do have an oil cooler and water meth which helps cooling and the keeping the timing pull down. Just did a compression test last week and everything looked good. Hopefully it continues to last, I will probably end up putting some rods in the motor but that's about it as far as building the motor for me.
 

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
The nice thing about the GTI is that if you do manage to burn up the engine it won’t cost a fortune to fix, a small fraction of what it would cost to replace an engine in an M car or a Porsche.

On topic: if you don’t intend to go nuts with modifications a CPO or Carmax warrantied M car or Porsche could be an awful lot of fun. If I’m going without a warranty and I wanted to go fast I’d look for a C7 Corvette, if I didn’t mind going slower I’d get a new Miata.
 

victorofhavoc

Autocross Champion
Sightly off topic but let me just lob the RS3 out there gently.... let's see what happens...
Pros: it's a gti with more power, no need to tune so fewer overheating issues, big juicy brakes from the factory
Cons: careful not to get ccb or will end up costing a fortune, can't adjust camber, too tempting to tune, expensive consumables, really expensive when things break, too many nannies and feeling like a video game
 

tpellegr

Go Kart Champion
I've done about 50 track days and a number of autocross with my gti, I do have an oil cooler and water meth which helps cooling and the keeping the timing pull down. Just did a compression test last week and everything looked good. Hopefully it continues to last, I will probably end up putting some rods in the motor but that's about it as far as building the motor for me.
Wow, that is an impressive amount of track days on the car and a testament to what this durable little hatchback can do. I can count on one hand the amount of track days I've had so far (all in the GTI), but I am having a blast, learning a lot and developing the skill set. A little disappointed I didn't opt for the PP (LSD) when I bought the car, but realistically, as a fun first track car and weekend driver, I've been super happy with this car!

Sightly off topic but let me just lob the RS3 out there gently.... let's see what happens...
I like the RS3 and TTRS a lot, but the fact they don't come in manual is a deal-breaker to me. They seem like a lot of fun though.

The nice thing about the GTI is that if you do manage to burn up the engine it won’t cost a fortune to fix, a small fraction of what it would cost to replace an engine in an M car or a Porsche.

On topic: if you don’t intend to go nuts with modifications a CPO or Carmax warrantied M car or Porsche could be an awful lot of fun. If I’m going without a warranty and I wanted to go fast I’d look for a C7 Corvette, if I didn’t mind going slower I’d get a new Miata.
I love the fact that the GTI is such an affordable easy to fix platform. Inexpensive enough to self insure at the track and not have to worry about footing a huge repair bill if something were to go wrong. Not sure I'd feel the same way with a 90k Porsche... haha
 
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maxwell

Drag Racing Champion
I like the RS3 and TTRS a lot, but the fact they don't come in manual is a deal-breaker to me. They seem like a lot of fun though.

I actually just had this conversation with another member. I went with a 6mt, and ive always driven manual transmission cars, but for the first time in my life I regret not going DSG on the MK7 platform.
 
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