Timing and trims look OK? [logs]

[mrmatto]

I've been having some intermittent inconsistent power issues in the midrange and I'm trying to pin down what's going on. FMIC has helped, but not solved. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to temperature-related power changes. I'm going to post logs when the car feels strong and when it feels not-so-strong and see if there's something learnable here. Car is at 59k mi but I've only put on 4k of those.

'Maybe it needs coils! Maybe it needs a carbon cleaning! Maybe it's normal! Maybe the manifold’s gonna blow! Tune in to find out!’

————————————

1/2/22 PM -- Felt good
Stock tune, 3rd gear pull, felt strong, ambient temps in 70s, 93 octane with 1 gal of E85
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/test1-1222?log=0&data=1-2-3-6

1/2/22 PM -- This felt yucky
Short third gear pull (had to let off due to traffic), felt very weak, very little torque, timing seems low.
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641221311?log=0&data=2-4-5-7-8&zoom=4290-4316
Is there a problem here? Why would timing be at -7* and -6*?

As a contrast, here are a few short 3rd gear pulls a few minutes later with no timing issues even though the IATs are the same as the above section.
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641221311?log=0&data=2-4-5-7-8&zoom=4801-4971

1/3/22 AM -- Cold day so taking IAT out of the blame set
These felt pretty strong (ignore the LTFT - sensor wasn't activated for logging)
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641224579?log=0&data=2-3-4-7-8&zoom=366-390
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641224579?log=0&data=2-3-4-7-8&zoom=519-545
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641224579?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-7-8&zoom=976-1003

LMK if you think there's anything else I should log. Going to try a few different logging apps along the way too.

1/3/22 -- New "good" log with strong performance and suggested parameters
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641232378?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9

1/4/22 -- Another "good log." This pull felt OK. Not especially strong, not weak, just OK. Timing looks normal.
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641317668?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-6-7-8-9-10&zoom=100-141

1/5/22 -- Felt pretty weak
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641405112?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9&zoom=382-399
I don't see any timing issues...

1/5/22 -- Felt strong
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641405112?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9&zoom=494-514
Looks similar to above, but actually had a degree less timing yet felt stronger.

1/5/22 -- Felt OK-ish
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641405112?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9&zoom=662-681
Looks the same

Added fuel flow since that was automatically captured: https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641420614?log=0&data=2-3

 

[ZuMBLe]

I've been having some intermittent inconsistent power issues and I'm trying to pin down what's going on. FMIC has helped, but not solved. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive to temperature-related power changes. I'm going to post logs when the car feels strong and when it feels not-so-strong and see if there's something learnable here. Car is at 59k mi but I've only put on 4k of those.

'Maybe it needs coils! Maybe it needs a carbon cleaning! Maybe it's normal! Maybe the manifold’s gonna blow! Tune in to find out!’

————————————

1/2/22 PM -- Felt good
Stock tune, 3rd gear pull, felt strong, ambient temps in 70s, 93 octane with 1 gal of E85
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/test1-1222?log=0&data=1-2-3-6

1/2/22 PM -- This felt yucky
Short third gear pull (had to let off due to traffic), felt very weak, very little torque, timing seems low.
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641221311?log=0&data=2-4-5-7-8&zoom=4290-4316
Is there a problem here? Why would timing be at -7* and -6*?

As a contrast, here are a few short 3rd gear pulls a few minutes later with no timing issues even though the IATs are the same as the above section.
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641221311?log=0&data=2-4-5-7-8&zoom=4801-4971

1/3/22 AM -- Cold day so taking IAT out of the blame set
These felt pretty strong (ignore the LTFT - sensor wasn't activated for logging)
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641224579?log=0&data=2-3-4-7-8&zoom=366-390
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641224579?log=0&data=2-3-4-7-8&zoom=519-545
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641224579?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-7-8&zoom=976-1003

LMK if you think there's anything else I should log. Going to try a few different logging apps along the way too.

You're not logging pedal,throttle, or any of the knock corrections. Really hard to say what's going on for sure.

 

[mrmatto]

You're not logging pedal,throttle, or any of the knock corrections. Really hard to say what's going on for sure.

OK, can you help me understand what I should log? I can't log too many sensors or else the data resolution will be crap.

 

[ZuMBLe]

OK, can you help me understand what I should log? I can't log too many sensors or else the data resolution will be crap.

You don't need to log throttle or pedal if you can make sure your comparisons are exactly the same scenario. Your "control" needs to be exactly same pedal engagement point as your "bad" log. You need to add knock retard/correction for cylinder 1 at the very least, but having all 4 cylinders is best.

Your "good" log has this also.

 

[mrmatto]

Any idea which of these are the right knock sensors?

And for throttle/pedal?

 

[ZuMBLe]

I'm not sure if it's knock regard var 1 or 2 in your software. Try both sets. Forget the throttle stuff. Just get the car in to 2800 rpm or so in 3rd and floor it to 6000. Log boost, timing advance, and the full set of knock retard.

 

[mrmatto]

I'm not sure if it's knock regard var 1 or 2 in your software. Try both sets. Forget the throttle stuff. Just get the car in to 2800 rpm or so in 3rd and floor it to 6000. Log boost, timing advance, and the full set of knock retard.

OK I'll give it a shot. Is -6-7 degrees timing advance normal? Absent other data, it doesn't make sense why that would happen. It certainly wasn't intake temps.

 

[mrmatto]

1/3/22 -- New "good" log with suggested parameters
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641232378?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9
I selected both variations for the knock retard and it only recorded variation 2. Not sure why. I can enter in custom PIDs if anyone happens to know them for the knock retard values.

 

[ZuMBLe]

1/3/22 -- New "good" log with suggested parameters
https://datazap.me/u/mrmattolsen/log-1641232378?log=0&data=1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9
I selected both variations for the knock retard and it only recorded variation 2. Not sure why. I can enter in custom PIDs if anyone happens to know them for the knock retard values.

Assuming the knock logging is correct, the tune is doing what it's supposed to be doing and it's not knocking. Your -7 log could have been 1 knock even that pulled 3 degrees out (which is pretty normal).

 

[mrmatto]

Assuming the knock logging is correct, the tune is doing what it's supposed to be doing and it's not knocking. Your -7 log could have been 1 knock even that pulled 3 degrees out (which is pretty normal).

I know, this is the good run. There was no issue. This is not my concern. The -7 log is my concern. Why would I get 3-4 degrees of knock correction on 93+ octane and reasonable IATs? This is what I'm trying to solve. My understanding is there shouldn't be any knock on the stock tune running 93+ octane, especially not when ambient temps aren't even 80 degrees and I'm running an aftermarket FMIC.

 

[ZuMBLe]

I know, this is the good run. There was no issue. This is not my concern. The -7 log is my concern. Why would I get 3-4 degrees of knock correction on 93+ octane and reasonable IATs? This is what I'm trying to solve. My understanding is there shouldn't be any knock on the stock tune running 93+ octane.

For us to know for sure, you'd need to capture a -7 in a log while logging the above parameters. I wouldn't worry about it too much if you can't repeat it.

 

[mrmatto]

For us to know for sure, you'd need to capture a -7 in a log while logging the above parameters. I wouldn't worry about it too much if you can't repeat it.

If it was a one time thing, I wouldn't worry. But the reason for this thread is that I keep having this intermittent power loss in seemingly good conditions (not hot, 93+ octane gas, aftermarket FMIC) and am trying to nail down the cause. I'm going to keep driving around with the logger running and hopefully catch it again.

Thinking ahead... What would causes this? Carbon buildup? Plugs? Injectors?

 

[ZuMBLe]

I'd try another gas station. The cooler air could also mean boost spikes, which could cause knock.

 

[jimlloyd40]

If it was a one time thing, I wouldn't worry. But the reason for this thread is that I keep having this intermittent power loss in seemingly good conditions (not hot, 93+ octane gas, aftermarket FMIC) and am trying to nail down the cause. I'm going to keep driving around with the logger running and hopefully catch it again.

Thinking ahead... What would causes this? Carbon buildup? Plugs? Injectors?

See if it keeps repeating first.

 

[mrmatto]

See if it keeps repeating first.

I know it's repeated, it's just a matter of catching it while I'm logging

I'd try another gas station. The cooler air could also mean boost spikes, which could cause knock.

Yeah I've definitely been going to various gas stations. I've tried 93 from Mobile, Shell, and GATE. But GATE is the only place that has E85.