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Ukraine: WAR Huh - What Is It Good For Absorootly Nothing

manu97

Autocross Champion
I'm waiting to see how the world will respond to this. Protests and condemnation mean absolutely nothing to the people of Ukraine. Sanctions are a pin prick to Russia.

Will the west just provide empty rhetoric while Ukraine has to pay the price for trying to actually self govern and break away from Russia? Are we going to help? What does help look like? Troops? Equipment?

Are countries going to open up their borders and take Ukrainian refugees?
I think Poland opened theirs to Ukraine - no visa needed, just a form of ID.
 

dtfd

Autocross Champion
Big countries don't fight other big countries. They use smaller countries as a tool to do this. No one will come to actually wage war on Russia; as you stated, sanctions are worthless, and that's all that will happen.

This ends with Russia taking pieces of Ukraine, everyone being upset for a year and then forgetting about it. Everyone outside Ukrainians that is.
This is exactly what I'm afraid will happen, and the mostly likely scenario.

Nobody wants a war between nuclear states which is why the west has been waffling on Ukraine. We pushed Ukraine toward believing that NATO membership was possible, something that the Ukrainian people wanted because they knew this exact scenario was very possible, only to have the west drop them like a hot potato when Russia gets serious about not sharing a massive border with NATO. Meanwhile the people of Ukraine are caught in the middle.
 

Daks

Autocross Champion
This is exactly what I'm afraid will happen, and the mostly likely scenario.

Nobody wants a war between nuclear states which is why the west has been waffling on Ukraine. We pushed Ukraine toward believing that NATO membership was possible, something that the Ukrainian people wanted because they knew this exact scenario was very possible, only to have the west drop them like a hot potato when Russia gets serious about not sharing a massive border with NATO. Meanwhile the people of Ukraine are caught in the middle.
Nail on the head.
 

dtfd

Autocross Champion
What's that? A nuclear weapon? If that happens everything is fucked everywhere.
NATO is deadly serious about article 5.

To answer the question, yes. A test of article 5 from a nuclear power is the very thing that wipes out humanity.
 

manu97

Autocross Champion
Article 5 is the mutual defense agreement - "An attack on one is an attack on all"
@Daks
 

Corprin

Autocross Champion
What's that? A nuclear weapon? If that happens everything is fucked everywhere.

You realize NATO also has conventional weapons…right?
 

Corprin

Autocross Champion
NATO is deadly serious about article 5.

To answer the question, yes. A test of article 5 from a nuclear power is the very thing that wipes out humanity.

A nuclear attack gets nuclear response. A chemical/biological attack gets a chemical/biological response.

Putin doesn’t want a nuclear exchange as much as we don’t… but I’m starting to question his ability to think rationally.

1645799277955.jpeg
 

dtfd

Autocross Champion
You realize NATO also has conventional weapons…right?
I have a hard time seeing how a limited war between superpowers would stay a limited war. At the beginning it's possible but eventually one side will start to lose, and expecting the losing side in a war to not use its greatest weapon is something i don't see happening.
 

manu97

Autocross Champion
W
A nuclear attack gets nuclear response. A chemical/biological attack gets a chemical/biological response.

Putin doesn’t want a nuclear exchange as much as we don’t… but I’m starting to question his ability to think rationally.

View attachment 240548
Wait that wasn't my understanding of article 5 - I thought it was just war on one is war on all - i think biological weapons are still disallowed/considered war crimes.
 

manu97

Autocross Champion
I have a hard time seeing how a limited war between superpowers would stay a limited war. At the beginning it's possible but eventually one side will start to lose, and expecting the losing side in a war to not use its greatest weapon is something i don't see happening.
At most it'll be a proxy war. A la Afghanistan
 

dtfd

Autocross Champion
W

Wait that wasn't my understanding of article 5 - I thought it was just war on one is war on all - i think biological weapons are still disallowed/considered war crimes.
chemical/biological weapons are still a war crime.

doesn't change the fact that we all have them. The US built them for "research" because we need to have the cures in case Russia uses them. Russia built them for "research" because they need to have the cures in case the US uses them.

End result? Two superpowers with both nuclear and biological arsenals capable of making life on earth something of the past.
 
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