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Edmunds comparison Si vs. GTI

davesee

FIA GT Champion
Slowride said:
Well, they said what they said, and that is all the reference you can go by in this case.

This "torque challenged" stuff is really starting to get old for me. I drive the Si every day, in traffic, and I don't have an issue. I keep reading this, and it seems like the popular impression is that the Si feels like you are taking off in 4th gear from a dead stop or something.

I can tell you that I enjoy driving a "torque challenged" car, I guess.

Also, I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over these reviews. In the coming months, you will see the Si on top in some cases, and the GTI on top in some cases.

In the end, it is your choice, and your wallet...so why the hell do we need the blessing from some magazine to tell us we made a good decision?


yeah, what he said.. its good to see an si driver's input - who else would know better..?

I have to agree to not rely on magazines tell us everything we need to know on cars.

p.s. its also good to see a si driver continually posting on a gti mkv site :thumbup:
 

Wantagti

insufficient funds
Location
Apex, NC
Car(s)
Chevy Suburban Z71
I agree with you on everyone will chose their own winner, as did you. There is no comparison when it comes to the day to day not beating the car to accelerate driving dynamics. And they suck at drag racing which is readily apparent on almost every stick car they drive. The average on your car that I've seen is 15.0 @ 95 or so. Not too many have even reviewed the stick GTI in the US, but the MPH on the DSG's averages about 95 on it as well. For some people, what the magazines say is the gospel that they base their decision on. I bought a Sentra Spec V back in 02 or 03 knowing it never finished well, but I love the torque it had and knew right away that the 15.4-15.8 quarter mile times were crap as I ran a 15.30 then a 15.20 first time I ever raced a FWD at the track. I only wish I could run both at the track just for fun :)

PS- remember, I doubt the clubSi forum would be quite as accomadating to this kind of discussion. I am the one who is thinking about the 4 door Si.
 

Slowride

Touring Car Newbie
Location
US
Wantagti said:
PS- remember, I doubt the clubSi forum would be quite as accomadating to this kind of discussion.

I don't visit the clubSi forum, but you are probably right. Anyone can troll on any forum and act like a moron, but I would rather have some realistic discussion rather than flaming back and forth all day.

Anyway, I noticed in the review they list the Si climate controls as having, "9 Knobs and 2 Buttons". It is actually "9 buttons, 2 Knobs". They don't seem to proof their stuff, I guess.
 

Teknophreak

Rally Car Champion
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
First off, I'm not a VW fan - this is my first VW. Second, as one who actually owns the car, I can speak from experience. As such, I disagree with some of the statements made in this review. I don't disagree with them because I'm a 16 year old kid defending his fav ride; I disagree with them because they are contradictory to my experience with the car.
I have NO need to justify my purchase. It's a great car. Like I said, I don't really care about the review.

>>Why don't you just take it to a track vs an SI, and just outdrive the motherf@#$r?

Or, why don't you flog it around some of your favorite twisties? Then, drive it to the grocery store, pick up some friends and put them in the back seat, accelerate quickly in city traffic without the engine screaming at 7K RPM (cops have ears).... Yup, the SI is better in the top 1/10th of the performance envelope. No one is arguing that. I simply chose a car that is better in the remaining 9/10ths.
 

Wantagti

insufficient funds
Location
Apex, NC
Car(s)
Chevy Suburban Z71
You're definitely cool with me man. I'm just still gushing after driving the GTI twice a month ago. Ten years or so ago, I would have loved the Si as I loved turning the rpms up and screaming down the road. Nowadays, I like the V8 power feel as I've had 5 Z28's and made occasional track visits in all of them. My first car was a beloved 1990 Civic Si in white. You couldn't tell me there was a better car because I was 18 and wasn't listening to anyone, although at $11,000, I don't think there really was in 1990. I think they stopped the Mirage Turbo in 1989, and it was more $.
I really would like to drive the Si sedan, don't want to waste our Honda dealer's time or mile up a two door knowing I wouldn't buy it because of the back seat and dash. They have two of them just sitting there too. One thing I have to give props to though, Honda quality. It is second to none.
 

ConnerrySER04

East Coast transplant
Location
San Diego, CA
Car(s)
MKVGTI
Wantagti said:
I agree with you on everyone will chose their own winner, as did you. There is no comparison when it comes to the day to day not beating the car to accelerate driving dynamics. And they suck at drag racing which is readily apparent on almost every stick car they drive. The average on your car that I've seen is 15.0 @ 95 or so. Not too many have even reviewed the stick GTI in the US, but the MPH on the DSG's averages about 95 on it as well. For some people, what the magazines say is the gospel that they base their decision on. I bought a Sentra Spec V back in 02 or 03 knowing it never finished well, but I love the torque it had and knew right away that the 15.4-15.8 quarter mile times were crap as I ran a 15.30 then a 15.20 first time I ever raced a FWD at the track. I only wish I could run both at the track just for fun :)

PS- remember, I doubt the clubSi forum would be quite as accomadating to this kind of discussion. I am the one who is thinking about the 4 door Si.

at least you're not on a forum where most of the guys buy the cars, then beat the crap out of THEMSELVES for buying it, like some of the Spec V forums.
Don't know why, for the money, the Spec's been a really fun ride. That's one reason I prefer the GTI...I'd REALLY miss the torque if I went with the SI. Plus, I learned to drive stick on an MKI GTI back in the mid 80's....even though I've owned many vehicles since then, including Civic SI's, EX's, and even a Del Sol SI, I've always had a soft spot for the VW. Today, it's the SI interior that drive me nuts...just too much going on at one time. Still want to take one out for a spin, for the hell of it. It's just that in 20 years of driving, I've NEVER had the immediate connection to a vehicle that I had with the GTI test drive I had in February...it was like a syringe full of adrenaline straight to the heart. Little bastard won me over in the first 5 mins. :tongue:

P
 

Wantagti

insufficient funds
Location
Apex, NC
Car(s)
Chevy Suburban Z71
We are alike in that way. The Spec V is the best bargain sport compact out there period. There's a $2500 rebate on it and I think the next gen one is fugly. I'm just willing to pay the difference for the experience and feel.
 

dwl137

Touring Car Champion
Location
Pennsylvania
The other thing that often is overlooked is that when they test these cars they have them for a day or two. People that live with their car, know it's quircks and characteristics will generally be able to drive their car faster, launch it better, yada yada. Even though all FWD are similar in ways, they all handle different.

If you put someone that has owned their GTI for a year against a magazine tester that's driven it a few hours I'd imagine the GTI owner would get better numbers, as he knows the car better than the magazine guy. Just my theory and my 2 cents.

For instance, if the guy drives the Si for awhile, and then hops into the VW right after and trys to drive it like the Si, it's obviously going to feel different, or maybe worse. Same goes vice versa. It's all subjective in the end. They're both great cars, just different.

I'm tired of everyone basing their opinions on what a magazine says. Buy what you like and leave it at that and dont bash others for their decision.
 

GTI2007

Moderator
dwl137 said:
The other thing that often is overlooked is that when they test these cars they have them for a day or two. People that live with their car, know it's quircks and characteristics will generally be able to drive their car faster, launch it better, yada yada. Even though all FWD are similar in ways, they all handle different.

If you put someone that has owned their GTI for a year against a magazine tester that's driven it a few hours I'd imagine the GTI owner would get better numbers, as he knows the car better than the magazine guy. Just my theory and my 2 cents.

For instance, if the guy drives the Si for awhile, and then hops into the VW right after and trys to drive it like the Si, it's obviously going to feel different, or maybe worse. Same goes vice versa. It's all subjective in the end. They're both great cars, just different.

I'm tired of everyone basing their opinions on what a magazine says. Buy what you like and leave it at that and dont bash others for their decision.

IMHO you are so right about it :clap:
 

ConnerrySER04

East Coast transplant
Location
San Diego, CA
Car(s)
MKVGTI
dwl137 said:
The other thing that often is overlooked is that when they test these cars they have them for a day or two. People that live with their car, know it's quircks and characteristics will generally be able to drive their car faster, launch it better, yada yada. Even though all FWD are similar in ways, they all handle different.

If you put someone that has owned their GTI for a year against a magazine tester that's driven it a few hours I'd imagine the GTI owner would get better numbers, as he knows the car better than the magazine guy. Just my theory and my 2 cents.

For instance, if the guy drives the Si for awhile, and then hops into the VW right after and trys to drive it like the Si, it's obviously going to feel different, or maybe worse. Same goes vice versa. It's all subjective in the end. They're both great cars, just different.

I'm tired of everyone basing their opinions on what a magazine says. Buy what you like and leave it at that and dont bash others for their decision.

I concur. Solid post.
 

ConnerrySER04

East Coast transplant
Location
San Diego, CA
Car(s)
MKVGTI
Wantagti said:
We are alike in that way. The Spec V is the best bargain sport compact out there period. There's a $2500 rebate on it and I think the next gen one is fugly. I'm just willing to pay the difference for the experience and feel.
..it sure is, isn't it? I'm sure I'll enjoy the GTI for years to come, but I can't say I won't miss the Spec a little. It's like the muscle car of sport compacts; unrefined, kinda tacky, really makes no sense, but a blast behind the wheel, every time.:biggrin:
 

AlEkZ

Ready to race!
Location
CA
Article: "The hard facts
If this were a contest of usable powertrains, the GTI would win hands down. Most people, even most enthusiasts, prefer the GTI's rip-snortin', off-the-bottom torque to the Si's spin-it-till-you're-dizzy power delivery. And with 207 pound-feet of torque delivered at a low 1,800 rpm it's easy to see why..."

What I got from the article is that they liked the Si better for the track and the GTi better for everyday use, and that's all I've been hearing since I got interested in the Gti anyways. they do base their decision heavily on MSRP prices which at least in CA you can't get an SI at MSRP, its more along the lines of the GTI pricing.
 

conflicted

Go Kart Newbie
Location
oregon
AlEkZ said:
Article: "The hard facts
If this were a contest of usable powertrains, the GTI would win hands down. Most people, even most enthusiasts, prefer the GTI's rip-snortin', off-the-bottom torque to the Si's spin-it-till-you're-dizzy power delivery. And with 207 pound-feet of torque delivered at a low 1,800 rpm it's easy to see why..."

What I got from the article is that they liked the Si better for the track and the GTi better for everyday use, and that's all I've been hearing since I got interested in the Gti anyways. they do base their decision heavily on MSRP prices which at least in CA you can't get an SI at MSRP, its more along the lines of the GTI pricing.


you raise a good point and ill raise another good one. if they were basing it off price and yada yada yada then they should take in account inchurance costs.... they are monsterus for teh Si over the GTI the first thing i look for when i go car shoping is the cost to have the car byond the price of the actual car. and for me teh gti was so much cheaper i never even started lookig at the new Si's or RSX type S.
 

Wantagti

insufficient funds
Location
Apex, NC
Car(s)
Chevy Suburban Z71
I'm gonna throw a wrench in that theory. Full coverage through State Farm every six months is $361.10 for the Si, $347.10 for the GTI. I wouldn't call that monsterous. Even if you're young or have a bad driving record, I would think the difference should still be minimal.
 
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