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The COVID19 SCAMdemic... California Nears $8 Gallon Gas - Biden Sends Zelenskyyy $61 Billion

oddspyke

Autocross Champion
That's pretty unlikely.

You propose they would have died randomly instead?
This is where I feel like it would be much more helpful to measure something like "life years lost", as economists often do for health interventions, rather than just deaths. Many of the "other listed conditions" are ones that could be managed for a long time with high quality of life, some are more terminal. I think it will also be interesting to see if the excess death rate runs lower over the next 2-5 years due to the virus having an outsized impact on people with co-morbidities.
 

zrickety

The Fixer
That's pretty unlikely.

You propose they would have died randomly instead?
People with health problems die 'randomly' all the time. The regular flu for example kills 625k every year. It doesn't take much if you're already chronically ill. You also have to remember we have an aging population, all the baby boomers are getting up there, they will die in higher numbers than previous generations. No one is looking at this.
 

JC_451

Autocross Champion
People with health problems die 'randomly' all the time. The regular flu for example kills 625k every year. It doesn't take much if you're already chronically ill. You also have to remember we have an aging population, all the baby boomers are getting up there, they will die in higher numbers than previous generations. No one is looking at this.
That's true, but 170k people dying "randomly" isn't very likely.

What is likely is that -many- of these people would still be alive if they hadn't encountered the virus.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Yes but that's not the cause of death that's stated.

I'll explain it for the third time, just for you.

Having an MVA doesn't necessarily kill you, it the injuries that kill you. Millions crash their cars every year and live or are uninjured at all. If you die in a MVA, and make it to the hospital, they try to save you, you die, then your cause of death usually reads MVA, blunt force trauma, hypovolemic shock, etc..... Now, some people die at the scene, never make it to an ER, have diagnostic tests done, etc... In some states, paramedics consulting with an ER physician on the radio will pronounce you dead. Since they may not know that you seatbelt lacerated your abdominal aorta, because they don't have xray vision, and there may not be a legal reason to do an autopsy, the cause of death may just be MVA. That doesn't mean that those that had MVA and blunt force trauma listed a causes of death didn't die due to an MVA.

Let's use the same logic with Covid. Having Covid doesn't mean you're going to die, but some covid patients do die due to organ damage caused by covid. Some people die in nursing homes with no diagnostic testing done, other than a covid test, so they may not know if it was lung damage, renal damage or heart damage that killed them, and there may not be a legal reason to do an autopsy to find out, but covid caused the organ damage that killed them, and covid will be the only cause of death listed. Some covid patients with covid die while being treated in a hospital and they've had xrays, CT's, lab tests, etc... to determine what organs are being damaged by covid so they can treat them. When those people die, they will list multiple causes , since they know specifically which organ was being attacked, if not multiple. zcrickety and gwpudit seem to think that only the 6% that died with ONLY covid listed as a cause of death died of covid, which is idiotic.

Now, you brought up a valid point. What if that person was going to die of a heart attack or pneumonia that day with or without covid, and that's certainly a remote possibility, but would be the exception, not the rule, and we know this because we have the EXCESS MORTALITY RATE that shows us that during this time last year, we had 5 times less pneumonia deaths and 2 times less heart attack deaths in Florida. Certainly some of the heart attack deaths can be attributed to people not seeking care, but on autopsy and during surgery, they aren't seeing signs of coronary artery disease in a lot of these patients, but rather abnormal clot formation, which is associated with covid.

So to think that only 6% of covid deaths are real, because 94% had additional causes of death listed is just wrong and nonsensical. It would be like saying only 6% of MVA deaths were caused by an MVA, because 94% had other causes of death listed.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
People with health problems die 'randomly' all the time. The regular flu for example kills 625k every year. It doesn't take much if you're already chronically ill. You also have to remember we have an aging population, all the baby boomers are getting up there, they will die in higher numbers than previous generations. No one is looking at this.

They sure do, that's why they look at the excess death rate to compare year to year. You aren't going to see a jump of 5x more people randomly dying of pneumonia in Florida without external factors, like say a virus that causes pneumonia and attacks the lungs.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
I'll explain it for the third time, just for you.

Having an MVA doesn't necessarily kill you, it the injuries that kill you. Millions crash their cars every year and live or are uninjured at all. If you die in a MVA, and make it to the hospital, they try to save you, you die, then your cause of death usually reads MVA, blunt force trauma, hypovolemic shock, etc..... Now, some people die at the scene, never make it to an ER, have diagnostic tests done, etc... In some states, paramedics consulting with an ER physician on the radio will pronounce you dead. Since they may not know that you seatbelt lacerated your abdominal aorta, because they don't have xray vision, and there may not be a legal reason to do an autopsy, the cause of death may just be MVA. That doesn't mean that those that had MVA and blunt force trauma listed a causes of death didn't die due to an MVA.

Let's use the same logic with Covid. Having Covid doesn't mean you're going to die, but some covid patients do die due to organ damage caused by covid. Some people die in nursing homes with no diagnostic testing done, other than a covid test, so they may not know if it was lung damage, renal damage or heart damage that killed them, and there may not be a legal reason to do an autopsy to find out, but covid caused the organ damage that killed them, and covid will be the only cause of death listed. Some covid patients with covid die while being treated in a hospital and they've had xrays, CT's, lab tests, etc... to determine what organs are being damaged by covid so they can treat them. When those people die, they will list multiple causes , since they know specifically which organ was being attacked, if not multiple. zcrickety and gwpudit seem to think that only the 6% that died with ONLY covid listed as a cause of death died of covid, which is idiotic.

Now, you brought up a valid point. What if that person was going to die of a heart attack or pneumonia that day with or without covid, and that's certainly a remote possibility, but would be the exception, not the rule, and we know this because we have the EXCESS MORTALITY RATE that shows us that during this time last year, we had 5 times less pneumonia deaths and 2 times less heart attack deaths in Florida. Certainly some of the heart attack deaths can be attributed to people not seeking care, but on autopsy and during surgery, they aren't seeing signs of coronary artery disease in a lot of these patients, but rather abnormal clot formation, which is associated with covid.

So to think that only 6% of covid deaths are real, because 94% had additional causes of death listed is just wrong and nonsensical. It would be like saying only 6% of MVA deaths were caused by an MVA, because 94% had other causes of death listed.

I didn't want you to explain it the first two times either. 😂

With regards to the last paragraph I did not say that.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
I didn't want you to explain it the first two times either. 😂

With regards to the last paragraph I did not say that.

No, but zcrickety did, you liked it, and you pondered if it was true.
 

zrickety

The Fixer
72 million baby boomers...by contrast there were 23 million people in the 'silent' generation before.
So it makes sense that we will see 3x the previous deaths just because of sheer numbers.
#MATH
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
72 million baby boomers...by contrast there were 23 million people in the 'silent' generation before.
So it makes sense that we will see 3x the previous deaths just because of sheer numbers.
#MATH

Not in a 12 month period.
Nowhere in any post did I say I was pondering anything. That's your assumption.

When you say "if true" it means your pondering if it's true or not. Don't be pedantic.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Not in a 12 month period.


When you say "if true" it means your pondering if it's true or not. Don't be pedantic.

No it doesn't. When I said "if true" that's as far as I went. I didn't spend one second pondering it because I don't care. And the only one being ostentatious with their thinking is you.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
No it doesn't. When I said "if true" that's as far as I went. I didn't spend one second pondering it because I don't care. And the only one being ostentatious with their thinking is you.

Pedantic it is.

You're unbelievable.
 
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