Consolidated Macan Brembo upgrade thread (READ FIRST POST)

[PatMc]

Hey @PatMc, 2/4 of the Macan pistons are coated, while the other two are not on these calipers.
View attachment 290913

Anyway my question is: does your rebuild kit take that into account? Your pic looks like its 3/4 of one, and 1/4 of the other

Probably 2 different anodizing batches in that picture...or the pistons on the outside had a different level of exposure to something. Heat/UV/cleaning chemicals can all fade anodizing dyes...while you can do UV resistant black (that's why most automatic doors at grocery stores, etc..are black)...nobody is gonna waste money on that for caliper pistons as it makes no difference.

My pistons are all hard anodized. The coloration can vary a bit, but the color is insignificant. I have pistons that are black (color in anodizing is just a dye) and pistons that are bright silver and pistons that are somewhere in between....they are all hard anodized. I don't spec the color because I don't care...as long as the properties are there.

 

[Cuzoe]

@PatMc I won't pretend to have any idea what difference it makes, assuming it makes a difference at all... but the pistons are not the same (outside of color)...

Favor to ask of anyone who is currently pending installation of *or* has disassembled/rebuilt their calipers:

It looks like there are two different styles of pistons in these (see below). The first set is darker in color (dark grey/black finish) and the bottom is mostly smooth. The second set is lighter in color (more silver/bronze in color) and the bottom has a circular groove around it that’s appx. 1/8” wide and 3/32” deep. There are four of each, so it’s not easy to identify if they should pair up according to the halves or if one of each should go in to each half.

View attachment 178638

Long and the short of it, I tried to refinish these myself, they didn’t come out as well as I‘d have liked, so I’m having them powder coated. Unfortunately, I’m an idiot and was disassembling them while tired and didn’t keep track of which ones go where, so I’m hoping someone can provide clear pictures of either/both calipers’ pistons so that I can get these back together correctly.

MUCH appreciation and gratitude to anyone who can assist!

Lastly, if anyone is looking for any pictures of specific parts of the caliper before I reassemble them, hit me up.

From @burgerkong who just took apart a set:
View attachment 178649

Make sure your powdercoating guy doesnt blast the bores since they're anodized

 

[PatMc]

I can't see shit in that picture...any link to the original post or details as far as what is different besides the color? There's no reason why the inner and outboard pistons would be different.

Edit: There are a few applications that use a similar piston but with a phenolic or ceramic nosepiece for heat insulation...the phenolic is usually black/dark brown. They shouldn't be in use on the Macan caliper though...typically only on stuff that has carbon ceramic brakes, and only sometimes. Might that be what your seeing?

 

[Cuzoe]

I can't see shit in that picture...any link to the original post or details as far as what is different besides the color? There's no reason why the inner and outboard pistons would be different.

Edit: There are a few applications that use a similar piston but with a phenolic or ceramic nosepiece for heat insulation...the phenolic is usually black/dark brown. They shouldn't be in use on the Macan caliper though...typically only on stuff that has carbon ceramic brakes, and only sometimes. Might that be what your seeing?

It's a pretty good picture, not sure what you can't see. I quoted the post, click the link to view the picture. But here's the link to the post...
https://golfmk7.com/forums/index.ph...de-thread-read-first-post.371028/post-7464551

 

[Acadia18]

The picture directly

 

[PatMc]

It's a pretty good picture, not sure what you can't see. I quoted the post, click the link to view the picture. But here's the link to the post...
https://golfmk7.com/forums/index.ph...de-thread-read-first-post.371028/post-7464551

AH....I can see better now.

Typically that groove/relief in the bottom of the piston is there to accomodate an anti-knockback spring...which these clearly don't have at the OE level.

I'm holding to my story that Brembo had a couple different suppliers on the pistons...one made it into one side some of the calipers and one made it into the other side. Toyota V6 truck engines used to come from the factory with Denso plugs in one bank and NGK plugs in the other bank. Probably the same thing.

All my pistons are the same for these.

 

[Acadia18]

Not my text, but from this thread:

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...ure-valves-and-seal-lube.376654/#post-7477251

I discovered that the inner pistons had significantly less retraction than the outer pistons and assumed that was due to the darker coated pistons having a slicker surface; that was incorrect. In fact, the dark pistons actually have a rougher coating with less slip to the rubber seal. The reason the inner pistons have less retraction is due to the inner/outer piston cup seal channel machining differences. The outer piston cups have the low drag channel, but the inner channels have the standard cut:

The inner dark pistons actually adhere more to the seal, so when I put them in the outer position with the low drag cut, that results in even more piston retraction; the opposite of what you want for a higher firmer brake pedal. So, the dark and light piston location does matter, and it is best to install them in the OEM position (dark on the inside and light on the outside).

The aftermarket pistons I ordered actually turned out to be the lighter coating, and the coating is even slicker than the OEM light pistons, which gives even less retraction. However, they did not have the channel machined into the piston face like the OEM pistons, and were the same design as the darker inner pistons. I tried installing them on the outer position with the dark OEM on the inside, they worked okay but something felt a bit off under hard braking, it felt like it was a bit softer somehow? I am not entirely sure what that channel does, but I like it, and since the difference was minor I decided to stick with all the original pistons.


Considering every single person in this thread who has disassembled their calipers (myself included) has the same piston configuration, I don't think it's as simple as "Well, they probably have different suppliers and it's just luck of the draw of which pistons get grabbed from the bin..." By all accounts, the calipers have two very specific, different pistons in them from the factory. Now, why that is and the full extent of the details? Only Porsche\Brembo probably know.

 

[PatMc]

Not my text, but from this thread:

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...ure-valves-and-seal-lube.376654/#post-7477251

I discovered that the inner pistons had significantly less retraction than the outer pistons and assumed that was due to the darker coated pistons having a slicker surface; that was incorrect. In fact, the dark pistons actually have a rougher coating with less slip to the rubber seal. The reason the inner pistons have less retraction is due to the inner/outer piston cup seal channel machining differences. The outer piston cups have the low drag channel, but the inner channels have the standard cut:

View attachment 290994


The inner dark pistons actually adhere more to the seal, so when I put them in the outer position with the low drag cut, that results in even more piston retraction; the opposite of what you want for a higher firmer brake pedal. So, the dark and light piston location does matter, and it is best to install them in the OEM position (dark on the inside and light on the outside).

The aftermarket pistons I ordered actually turned out to be the lighter coating, and the coating is even slicker than the OEM light pistons, which gives even less retraction. However, they did not have the channel machined into the piston face like the OEM pistons, and were the same design as the darker inner pistons. I tried installing them on the outer position with the dark OEM on the inside, they worked okay but something felt a bit off under hard braking, it felt like it was a bit softer somehow? I am not entirely sure what that channel does, but I like it, and since the difference was minor I decided to stick with all the original pistons.


Considering every single person in this thread who has disassembled their calipers (myself included) has the same piston configuration, I don't think it's as simple as "Well, they probably have different suppliers and it's just luck of the draw of which pistons get grabbed from the bin..." By all accounts, the calipers have two very specific, different pistons in them from the factory. Now, why that is and the full extent of the details? Only Porsche\Brembo probably know.

Well, I didn't read through all 213 pages...for that I apologize. I guess just buy new calipers from the dealer if you need pistons then.

 

[GTIfan99]

Well, I didn't read through all 213 pages...for that I apologize. I guess just buy new calipers from the dealer if you need pistons then.

Meh, I'll be doing normal pistons when they need a rebuild. Less retraction is good and i doubt they would feel softer under heavy braking. Likely felt that way because they were firmer initially.

 

[TheMuffinMan]

Long shot, but has anyone attempted TE37's with the swap?

https://www.vividracing.com/volk-ra...-42mm-bronze-almite-p-153407160.html?cat=6424

 

[qnutx]

For some reason it's harder to get all the air out of the system with these calipers. Bleed the system LF, RF, LR, RR, then do multiple ABS stops. Give it a day or two, then do a 30 psi bleed LF, RF, LR, RR. If you bleed correctly, they are rock solid. If you aren't going to use Castrol Red Rubber grease on the pistons/seals, don't even bother using these calipers. No one wants to hear you complain about a soft pedal when you were given the answer in the first paragraph or the first post in the thread.

This is information that non0044, yirayira and I have put together over the last few months. We are not responsible for you changing your car from factory, and if you aren't knowledgeable about cars or braking systems, you might be better off keeping your cars OEM brakes.

Applications
The Macan calipers are direct fit on PP, R, A3 and S3 with the info below. They also are direct fit on new A4 and A5, but you'll need to figure out brake lines. The applications listed below use same pads, RS3 have the slot for R owners to use brake wear sensor. They also fit the regular MK7 and non-PP GTI, but will require 345mm rotors. There's no bracket required, these bolt straight to the knuckle. You can not use Macan rotors. Everything is spelled out in detail below.


Calipers
Part number for calipers. Sunset Porsche sells them for $242 each. Available widely at almost any dealer for $250-ish.

If you disassemble the calipers to paint or powder coat, make sure the black pistons are put back in the inner half of the calipers, they are designed to withstand more heat. Installing the pistons incorrectly will cause premature wear of the pistons.

95B-615-123-F
95B-615-124-F

Using Castrol Red Rubber Grease on the piston seals reduces retraction and gives a better feel.


Brake Pads
Pagid 2487 is the backing plate for the Macan pads and these are all the Pagid pads that use the same plate and thickness of pad. All of the below vehicles use the exact same pad as the Macan, regardless of rotor size.

Other manufacturers refer to this backing plate as 1001.

REF NO. THICKNESS MAKE MODEL YEAR FRONT
2487 15.4 mm Aston Martin DB 9 04 → X, 355mm
2487 15.4 mm Aston Martin Vantage V8 GT4 ProDrive [race car] 12 → X, no idea, likely 370mm.
2487 15.4 mm Audi TT RS 2.5 Quattro 09 → X, 370mm
2487 15.4 mm Cadillac CTS-V (4 piston front caliper) 03 → 09 X, 355mm
2487 15.4 mm Chevrolet Corvette Brembo non ceramic 09 → X, 380mm
2487 15.4 mm Chevrolet Camaro SS non-1LE 09 → X, 345mm x 30mm
2487 15.4 mm Ford GT 04 → 06 X X, 355mm
2487 15.4 mm Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 07 → X, 355
2487 15.4 mm Ford Mustang Boss 302 12 → X, 355mm
2487 15.4 mm Honda (Acura) Acura TL 04 → X, 330mm
2487 15.4 mm Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 track 10 → X, 340mm
2487 15.4 mm Mitsubishi Lancer Evo V - Evo IX 98 → 06 X, 330mm
2487 15.4 mm Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X 07 → X, 350mm
2487 15.4 mm Subaru STI 03 → X, 330mm
2487 15.4 mm Volvo S60 Turbo R Brembo brakes 03 → X, 305mm
2487 15.4 mm Volvo V70 R 2.5T Brembo brakes 03 → X, 305mm
2487 15.4 mm Audi A3 RS3 Quattro 11 → X, 370mm
2487 15.4 mm Dodge Viper SRT TA (time attack) 14 → X X, 355mm as far as I can find.

For pads I used Z26. They work well for street and autocross. I also tried the Powerstop track pad, due to price and good reviews in the Corvette and Lotus forums. After a track day and autocross on the Track Day pads, I just can't recommend them. Track pads are always going to be dusty, but these are insane. They also put on a spark show in heavy breaking zones. Not particularly good bite either


Power Stop Z26-1001 $79
Power Stop PST-1001 $120

Use the pins that come with the calipers. The PS pins are too short.

For those with a wear sensor that want to retain the sensor, below is a good street pad confirmed to fit.

Centric 105-16630

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ceb-105-16630


Brake Lines
For brake lines, email Chris@techna-fit.com and ask for the below. They were $50 + $9 shipping handling and he can do SS if you request. You can also use stock Macan lines but they're more expensive new and you have to ziptie them, so why? They can make them in SS.

Need 24" custom brake lines.
Hard line side 2016 Audi S3.
Needs the fitting to secure line to the knuckle.
Caliper side 2014 Audi S4.

Additionally, I'd like to thank emichel6888 for his work on getting a firm pedal without OBD11 coding. His project with residual pressure valves is below.

https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...t-pedal-with-residual-pressure-valves.376654/

If you want to use the stock Macan brake lines, this is the part number.

95B-611-701-E

Wheel fitment
17" and 18" barrels pretty easily clear the calipers, it's all going to be down to spoke design. The only wheels I know for sure that fit are listed below. I'll add to the list as I verify.

18x8.5 +45 Neuspeed RSe10
18 x 7.5 +51 factory Pretorias DO NOT FIT without 15mm spacer. I would never run that much spacer. YMMV.
17x8 +45mm Neuspeed RSE05 - fit perfectly without spacers or hub rings
17 x 7.5 +45 Konig Runlites fit with 10mm spacer.
17x7.5" +48mm RPF1 - do NOT fit (5mm is required to clear the face. 15mm spacers did not clear the barrel. Likely over 20mm required)
17x7.5" +42mm Sport Edition P4 - 12mm spacers required to clear face
17 x 8.5 +45 RSe16 fits no spacers.
18x9 ET45 Advan GT

Template for testing fitment with Macan calipers.
http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b...cdn.com/Q5_B8_BBK_Template.pdf



Caliper Rebuild Kit

Centric Parts
Part Number: 143.62059

High temp versions

https://racingbrake.com/db-45ht

Stock replacements.

https://autobrakesolutions.com/pages/product-result?rq=yr_2016~mk_porsche~md_macan~ix_base~lh_w-4-piston-front-calipers~in_front

Bleeder screws

https://autobrakesolutions.com/prod...ws-10-pack-bk9910?_pos=1&_sid=00dbce41d&_ss=r

Brake ducting
I've removed the heat shields and used Porsche GT3/2 brake ducts for a couple of years. They keep breaking after contacting the ground. I've since gone to RS3 ducts and I'd stick to the RS3 deflectors.


Rotors
M6 R/R32/CC 345mm x 30mm rotors fit perfectly, but you can stil use your 340mm x 30mm without issue. I test fitted rotors off a friends mk6 R and it's perfect. Less than .5 above and 3mm below the pad not being swept by pad.


VCDS/OBDeleven optimizations
I think I figured out why the brakes are so weird feeling. Even after I got them to firm up, they never really felt like I'm used to in my old STI or 911. I bought OBD11 to make some changes for track and had an ah ha moment.

The last change to make was for hydraulic brake assist, but I couldn't get it to work in OBD11 because I didn't have the correct security code. Took a couple of days to find it, but in the meantime, I drove around with the other changes and brakes felt the same. I finally found the code and deactivated Hydraulic brake assistance in the 03 module and they brakes actually work like a normal car now. Holy cow, night and day difference.

Here are some of the changes, but hydraulic brake assist is the only one your notice in everyday driving.

03 braking module security code 25757 worked for straight ahead brake stabilization. Turned it off and it'll allow trail braking into a corner without the abs fighting you.

03 braking module security code11966 worked for hydraulic brake assist. Removes the computer controlled brake boost that smooths out your braking and boosts braking pressure in panic stops. Gives you 100% control of brake pressure. Pedal felt amazing after turning off.

03 abs module Brake booster security code 25001 or 25004. Factory setting 4, most use 2, I like 3. Edit, finally set this to 2. Feels much better.

Impressions
They did great on track, with the car braking from 148 mph into turn 1 and 135 mph into the bus stop at Daytona. So much easier to modulate and they felt amazing. PP were always grabby and inconsistent. I'm still playing around with pads, not a fan of power stop track day pads, they threw massive spark showers in every braking zone, were hard on the rotors, and turned my white car black.

Enjoy.

Hello, I am new here and mega happy that I found you guys. Really thanks for all the info.
I am now about to upgrade my front brakes from 312mm straight to 345 with Macan calipers as i know everything i needed to.
What I do not know yet and didnt find anywhere is: Will the REAR Macan calipers fit bolt on on the mk7 platform with the 310 rotors?
Or what other options would there be as I want the rear Macan calipers mostly for the looks.

 

[GTIfan99]

Hello, I am new here and mega happy that I found you guys. Really thanks for all the info.
I am now about to upgrade my front brakes from 312mm straight to 345 with Macan calipers as i know everything i needed to.
What I do not know yet and didnt find anywhere is: Will the REAR Macan calipers fit bolt on on the mk7 platform with the 310 rotors?
Or what other options would there be as I want the rear Macan calipers mostly for the looks.

No, the rears do not bolt up, and from a performance perspective, the stock rears with good pads are all you need.

 

[EpicTech]

No, the rears do not bolt up, and from a performance perspective, the stock rears with good pads are all you need.

^This. I just did hawk pads in the rear and of course Hawks up front.

 

[Charlotte.:R]

No, the rears do not bolt up, and from a performance perspective, the stock rears with good pads are all you need.

Totally!

But, I think he might be asking about the 'base' Macan having caliper plates/covers similar to our fronts. Which would dress up the rears a little more, assuming aesthetics are all your after.

https://www.macanforum.com/threads/rear-brake-caliper-cover.170173/

^^based on that thread, they aren't available separately and you'd have to buy the whole caliper. Of course, this would assume the rear single piston calipers on the Macan are the same.....

 

[GTIfan99]

Totally!

But, I think he might be asking about the 'base' Macan having caliper plates/covers similar to our fronts. Which would dress up the rears a little more, assuming aesthetics are all your after.

https://www.macanforum.com/threads/rear-brake-caliper-cover.170173/

^^based on that thread, they aren't available separately and you'd have to buy the whole caliper. Of course, this would assume the rear single piston calipers on the Macan are the same.....

I'd bet you could 3d print a cover.