Dog Owners, need advice!

[85RedGolf2.5]

If you have nothing relevant to say to the question on advice for how to retrain this dog that my wife and I love, but isn't learning and getting worse in behavior, then leave, I don't want your post ruining the thread discussion. I'm simply pleading for help on a situation so it doesn't lead to giving the dog to a hunter's home since right now no one will take her with this behavior. It is either advice on how to fix, giver her to a hunter who can use her and give her adequate housing outside, or give her to a no kill shelter and they may end up putting her down anyways if they can't reverse the issue



So the F'in dog is now 5 yrs old, and for some reason, she has either
A.) Forgot how to bark/whine when needing out.
or
B.) Refuses to bark/whine when needing out and just wants to make my life miserable.

We had to drag out the crate again and set it up and lock her in it when we leave for work or going out. When we are home she is out. But as of right now, she is tied to the door on newspapers, because as of this morning, she has taken a dump 3 times in her cage, and 2 is with me right on the couch (out of her site, but still in the same room). We only use the cage for peace of mind when away from home, and the door for punishment since she HATES being on a door with neighbors walking by.

So, my question is, how do you re-house break a 5 yr old dog who refuses to let you know she is needing to take a dump?!

P.S. She doesn't go number 1 in the house at all, just number 2. I'm almost thinking this is just a broken dog and needs to go, but the wife wants to keep her and work with her.



PPS: She has a schedule, keeps to the schedule, gets attention, played with, plays with the cat, is on a good diet of one of the top brands from Petsmart (wife works there), vets don't know, and my friend who is a certified helper dog trainer is at a loss other than shock therapy (literal shock therapy when the dog is caught in the act) So, in conclusion, neither I nor my Wife are doing anything wrong, the dog is healthy, the dog is on a healthy diet and schedule, and is loved, I just need help with what is going on and how to rectify the situation at hand

 

[Jaxper]

It could be something wrong with her digestive system if it has happened all of the sudden. Definitely try to figure it out though. Don't give up on the dog, that's just cruel.

 

[danielj1]

Going in the crate is really uncommon behavior. I would think there is something medically off with her. Take her to the vet and get her checked out.

Otherwise, make sure the walks are consistent so she knows when she gets her breaks.

 

[85RedGolf2.5]

Nothing medically wrong, my cousin is a vet, and she checked her out. It isn't runny, it is solid craps. She is on a strict schedule and follow the recommended food portions, bed at 10pm, walk in the morning at 6am. My wife then gets home at 3pm, so she eats, and gets walked again, then she is running free the rest of the day, the crate is only for bed and away because of this. She started this about 5 months ago, and it just gets progressively worse. She used to whine before needing out, and she used to pace at the door as well... Now she walks up to us, looks at us for about 2 seconds, and runs off with her toy (like she is playing with it) next thing we know, we smell crap and it is out of our line of sight that she squatted over. No rhyme or reason to it either, that is just the most recent. She was playing with her toys and then BAM poo on the floor.

She is on the good dog food from Petsmart (wife gets the good stuff for the price of the cheap stuff at walmart) and gets plenty of walks.

 

[greasyginzo]

First off don't just up and get rid of the dog that is beyond fucked up.

Is she going when she walked? If there is nothing wrong with her digestive tract then it could be a neurological problem it's very unusual for dog to go in their crate. Has anything changed in your routine with her? I would speak to another vet something is going on.

 

[85RedGolf2.5]

She is going when she is walked, the only thing that has changed was I used to work at home for all of three months, and then when I started going into work at a new job, this started, but it never happened before. Unless this is retaliation, which then it needs to stop! And I don't have the energy to keep up with this. We've been working on this for the past five months, and no change, just gets worse. We are consistent in her punishment type which is a shove of the nose in the mess, and tie to the door (she gets the slack to lay down and stand up, but nothing really more and we leave her there for about half hour till she stops whining and begging to be let off the door) We got all of our "re" training tips from a dog trainer who trains dogs for the medical helper dogs in our local area. None of her dogs have ever failed a training course, But this one! My options are really running out, and the only option I see is to give her to a good home, where she is then an outdoor dog since she is not housebroken anymore. Plenty of hunters around here that use beagles, and take care of their dogs very well, better than most house dogs actually.

I'm just wanting adv on retraining, you all are so quick to say I'm doing something wrong... So here is the background of me, I've had 5 dogs growing up till now. None but this one were needing to be crated except for the first 2 months of ownership for housebreaking. None have ever had training issues but this one, none have ever had a lack of love, Including this one. So, I'm at a loss, the only thing that changed was work, but before that I never was home for work anyways.

P.S. this dog was Runt of the litter and the wife wanted this one the most.

 

[abalinka]

Obviously your work is what changed, and it's stressing your dog out. She likes having your company.

Try positive reinforcement instead of negative (smushing her nose in the poo isn't going to teach her anything except the smell of her own shit). When she goes outside, pretend like she shit out little gold nuggets and tell her how good she is, maybe even give her a treat.

 

[GTI84SD]

Obviously your work is what changed, and it's stressing your dog out. She likes having your company.

Try positive reinforcement instead of negative (smushing her nose in the poo isn't going to teach her anything except the smell of her own shit). When she goes outside, pretend like she shit out little gold nuggets and tell her how good she is, maybe even give her a treat.

This. Dogs are really perceptive to change. My dog was fine when I was working from home with being loose in the bedroom, but once I started visiting more clients he chewed a hole through our door. Solution: He stays crated when I'm out if it's not too long, or he goes to a dog day care that our trainer runs. He plays with other dogs and gets fresh air, so it's win-win.

 

[danielj1]

Obviously your work is what changed, and it's stressing your dog out. She likes having your company.

Try positive reinforcement instead of negative (smushing her nose in the poo isn't going to teach her anything except the smell of her own shit). When she goes outside, pretend like she shit out little gold nuggets and tell her how good she is, maybe even give her a treat.

+1

I would make sure the walks are consistent and give a treat every time she poops outside.

 

[85RedGolf2.5]

We do all that... I'm not sure why everyone is assuming i'm doing something wrong. Our trainer is at a loss as well. I just got off the phone with her (hour long convo) and she is stating that everything that i'm doing is correct. Punishing the behavior inside and rewarding it outside, spending time with her, and crating her when we're gone. The only conclusion she could come up with is if it doesn't change, then she is one of the very few dogs that are unable to be retrained once retaliation starts, and might need to find a home where outdoor living is for the dog. I live in an apartment, and we are not allowed to let the dog play outside (just business only) and the only dog friendly parks around are flea and tick infested, and poorly maintained. I really cannot keep this up especially with leaving for the Navy in a month.

All of you who think I'm doing something wrong, put yourself in my shoes. I only worked at home for a total of 1.5 months in the past 5 years of having this dog, during that time frame, I let her in my office for breaks and lunches only. She got more attention when I wasn't working at home than when I was. She just started this two weeks after I started my new job away from home, and it is getting progressively worse. We take her just about everywhere we can, but nothing we are doing is working.

I've tried the positive reinforcement (it gets worse), I've tried the Negative reinforcement (the behavior stabilizes), I've tried dog training courses (pretty pricey), I've tried vet opinions, all are conclusive that NOTHING is wrong physically and nothing is wrong with her neurological system.

This is something with the dog's psyche that hasn't been able to be broken after five months of trying things. We even gone as far as reverting back to clicker training, which was a fail.

The trainer I spoke with said the last thing to do would be to buy a training collar (one that has beep and shock) with a remote, and then set up a wireless web cam that you can access via the web. (I have a way of setting up a remote way of applying the beep and shock through the internet after extensive research) And then monitor the dog while at work or in the other room of the house, and if I see her about to crap, beep her, if she doesn't stop, then zap her. Like I said she has a schedule and sticks to it and goes outside, but something is wrong with her as to why she feels the need to crap in the home and in her crate. She isn't peeing inside at all. So I really don't know what else to do but start looking for homes at this point because that method the trainer gave me as a last resort is way too expensive and time consuming and I'm afraid I and my wife wouldn't get anything done at work.

 

[GTIMKV20]

^^ this. Consistent walks are key. And if the dog goes on the walk there is no chance of going at home as they should be empty when you are through!

 

[danielj1]

Did you call Cesar Millan?

 

[85RedGolf2.5]

^^ this. Consistent walks are key. And if the dog goes on the walk there is no chance of going at home as they should be empty when you are through!

No shit sherlock! I thought the same thing, but the other day, my wife took her for a walk, she emptied bladder and bowel, and when my wife was done cleaning up after work, she came out to the living room to find poop all over the living room in small little balls. This dog is shitting in the home for spite I believe and I'm ready to do what happened to Ole Yeller to this dog, but in this day and age that is wrong, so I'm looking for homes.




Oh, and as I was writing this, the dog was laying by my side, then got up looked at me and started crapping on the floor looking right at me. No whine, no pace, no bark, ABSOLUTELY NO indication she needed out! And she was just on a walk 15 minutes ago and went both 1 and 2. So, tell me I'm doing something wrong! BTW, I got up, put the leash on her, rubbed her nose in the shit, and put her on the door again. Now she is whining cause she knows she did something wrong. (or was she laughing at me as I cleaned up her crap?) I did not yell, I'm pissed beyond yelling and physical effort at this point.

If any of you want her and think you are right and I'm wrong, have the damned dog, I won't be upset at this point!!!

 

[abalinka]

I hope you give her to a good home and seriously reconsider ever getting another dog.

 

[85RedGolf2.5]

I hope you give her to a good home and seriously reconsider ever getting another dog.

I hope you rot in hell for saying this. I love dogs, I wish this one was trainable, but what reason does a dog have to get up and stare you down while crapping on your carpet without any warning of wanting out, and was just out and did her business 15 minutes prior?

I'm reaching out to the forum for help and all you have been was criticizing of my and my wife's interaction with the dog. If you want her, have her. She gets love, she used to sleep in the same room as us until 4 years ago (after she was fully house broken), without warning she just took a massive crap on our bed as we slept!!! (Talking with my wife about this she reminded me of that-guess they are right when they say your mind blocks out bad events in life) This isn't a new occurrence, just a resurgent of what was thought to be old behaviors trained out of her.


Does ANYONE other than abalinka have any advice of what to do? Or have you experienced a dog you have or had do a full reversal of training when you are not in the same room? No matter what the time frame is of being out of that room (unless she is crated-which doesn't seem to matter anymore for going number 2)?