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Looking for Another Laptop, but...

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
I prefer Mac too but I have a gaming pc too. Only use it to play. 2700x 1080ti 16gb of fast ram cheap ssd

It does well. I wish I could build a Mac gaming pc but not many games are on mac. Plus u can’t really build one. I mean u can but not really.
You are right, you really can’t build em because they have moved so much board function to the CPU where it takes place much faster.
 

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
It is mostly personal preference but there are a few things where I think that the Mac is worse at doing. There are many business based programs (Office etc.) that have less functionality on a Mac and the lack of a "right click" drives me nuts. Many of the mainstream business programs were designed for Windows and ported to Mac as an afterthought.

OTOH, if I was doing photo/design then the Mac might be a better platform. I just can't get over the lack of a right click.

Then there is the security issue. Mac users believe that they are immune to hacks but don't understand that they haven't been hacked because they are a relatively small target - but subsets have been specifically targeted - see the Big Mac Attack of a few years ago.

While the market share of Mac has increased over the years, it looks like it is going down a bit again. Here is the link for the static chart below.

View attachment 219098
Although this is historic info I will share my experience. I was an IT Director for a large university. We supported about 11,000 desktops users. About 30% were Macs. A large part of our help desk activity involved fixing infected or hacked computers. In 99.9% of our calls over such issues almost none of them were on the Mac OS. The big differences between the two platforms have to do with Win being the big target because it is the main operating system found in large corps, gov offices etc. It makes Macs much less of a target. Windows also suffers terribly because it is an open environment where anybody can write software, even poorly written software that often causes conflicts in the system and freezes it etc. which has users with unstable systems that often need restarting etc. Mac environment on the other hand is a closed environment and essentially gets certified before it is made available. It is why it just runs day in day out.
 

GenX Retread

Go Kart Champion
Every computer in our building is a Mac. We recently hired two app devs, and I was surprised to see that they both run Macs as well.

Right click on a Mac is just a two-finger click, but even cheap two button mice still work as you'd expect.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Every computer in our building is a Mac. We recently hired two app devs, and I was surprised to see that they both run Macs as well.

Right click on a Mac is just a two-finger click, but even cheap two button mice still work as you'd expect.
If it is that simple, then I might just play around with one.
 

gixxerfool

Drag Racing Champion
If it is that simple, then I might just play around with one.
I’m confused by what what you mean by lack of right click. Between my Magic Mouse on my mini, my trackpad and Anker mouse for MacBook Pro, I have traditional right click capability. You just set the preference in System Preferences.
 

Keehs360

Autocross Champion
I’m confused by what what you mean by lack of right click. Between my Magic Mouse on my mini, my trackpad and Anker mouse for MacBook Pro, I have traditional right click capability. You just set the preference in System Preferences.
I use two fingers for the right click myself
 

1L19

Autocross Champion
It's always hard for me to understand why people run Mac unless they are old, have zero computer experience or think their PC should be a fashion accessory. The business world runs on Microsoft and that's about it.

I respect the fact that Apple products are basically like safety scissors in that they protect you from making mistakes. However you can't build them, you can't tweak them, you can't game on them, they aren't upgradeable in some cases (RAM and Drives welded to the motherboard), they are very costly to repair.. even small items, too thin to cool properly, there aren't any "low end" Macs and they are WAY too expensive. Especially for casual users (most people) who want a laptop to browse the net, watch videos, listen to music and check facebook.

That's also the case for expensive Windows machines but with Windows there are lots and lots of budget choices which fully meet a regular user's needs. Also, as programmer, dba, server admin, etc I am very busy with tons of information I need to hold in my head. There is no way I'm saddling myself with two sets of operating system and the additional overhead that's required to constantly switch back and forth.

I wouldn't argue with a person who chooses an Apple product as that's their preference. However, personally, there are too many cons to any potential pros which would make me consider a Mac.. not in the slightest. Because in the end, what can expensive Mac do that a cheap Windows PC can't do except maybe get you a date with that hipster girl at Starbucks?

I'm thinking....
 

1L19

Autocross Champion
Windows also suffers terribly because it is an open environment where anybody can write software, even poorly written software that often causes conflicts in the system and freezes it etc. which has users with unstable systems that often need restarting etc. Mac environment on the other hand is a closed environment and essentially gets certified before it is made available. It is why it just runs day in day out.

Suffers terribly? I've been in the business since before there was an internet and I've never seen some poorly written open source software causing the kind of trouble you describe. Not saying it doesn't happen but apps are written under the Microsoft O/S and framework and it's not like there are no methods for protecting the O/S. Thread safety being a huge one.

There are a very large amount of quality open source application which cost exactly nothing. I use at least 10 every single day (paint.net, open office, keepass, notepad++, ect.) It's quite easy to determine the most used and stable solutions for your problem. Your description of the Apple process is accurate but it lacks an additional reason for that setup. Apple wants to squeeze every last dollar out of you that they possibly can so they lock it down, allow no outside development and then charge you a premium.
 

Keehs360

Autocross Champion
It's always hard for me to understand why people run Mac unless they are old, have zero computer experience or think their PC should be a fashion accessory. The business world runs on Microsoft and that's about it.

I respect the fact that Apple products are basically like safety scissors in that they protect you from making mistakes. However you can't build them, you can't tweak them, you can't game on them, they aren't upgradeable in some cases (RAM and Drives welded to the motherboard), they are very costly to repair.. even small items, too thin to cool properly, there aren't any "low end" Macs and they are WAY too expensive. Especially for casual users (most people) who want a laptop to browse the net, watch videos, listen to music and check facebook.

That's also the case for expensive Windows machines but with Windows there are lots and lots of budget choices which fully meet a regular user's needs. Also, as programmer, dba, server admin, etc I am very busy with tons of information I need to hold in my head. There is no way I'm saddling myself with two sets of operating system and the additional overhead that's required to constantly switch back and forth.

I wouldn't argue with a person who chooses an Apple product as that's their preference. However, personally, there are too many cons to any potential pros which would make me consider a Mac.. not in the slightest. Because in the end, what can expensive Mac do that a cheap Windows PC can't do except maybe get you a date with that hipster girl at Starbucks?

I'm thinking....
The os in whole is just a better experience. Everything works. There’s no bullshit. And being able to visit a Genius Bar is simple, easy and will net a solid repair experience.

plus all their software is on training wheels vs what’s available for windows

my house has a ton of macs and one single pc. I game on it. But if I could game on a Mac that I built with my own two hands, I would’ve abandoned windows by now.
 

gixxerfool

Drag Racing Champion
It's always hard for me to understand why people run Mac unless they are old, have zero computer experience or think their PC should be a fashion accessory. The business world runs on Microsoft and that's about it.

I respect the fact that Apple products are basically like safety scissors in that they protect you from making mistakes. However you can't build them, you can't tweak them, you can't game on them, they aren't upgradeable in some cases (RAM and Drives welded to the motherboard), they are very costly to repair.. even small items, too thin to cool properly, there aren't any "low end" Macs and they are WAY too expensive. Especially for casual users (most people) who want a laptop to browse the net, watch videos, listen to music and check facebook.

That's also the case for expensive Windows machines but with Windows there are lots and lots of budget choices which fully meet a regular user's needs. Also, as programmer, dba, server admin, etc I am very busy with tons of information I need to hold in my head. There is no way I'm saddling myself with two sets of operating system and the additional overhead that's required to constantly switch back and forth.

I wouldn't argue with a person who chooses an Apple product as that's their preference. However, personally, there are too many cons to any potential pros which would make me consider a Mac.. not in the slightest. Because in the end, what can expensive Mac do that a cheap Windows PC can't do except maybe get you a date with that hipster girl at Starbucks?

I'm thinking....
It’s simple for me. I owned enough windows machine to the point I “overpaid” for my first Mac. With all the money I paid for in windows machines, including new parts and upgraded parts, I could have bought one Mac. My first one lasted almost ten years. I only replaced it because it was still a 32 bit system and everything was converting to 64 so support went away.

A computer is an appliance. I need it be fast and reliable. I grew tired of driver issues, hardware update requirements and such to keep the machine going. Everything I use on Windows was available for Mac and runs smoother and more reliably. This includes non App Store applications, like Arduino IDE, FreeCAD, GIMP, Audacity and others. I got a free laptop from mother in law with windows. She never really used it so it was a clean slate. I installed the aforementioned apps and everything was fine. For a bit. I store my data off machine as habit, for some reason the machine started getting slower and slower to the point of being unusable. I got rid of it and replaced it with a MacBook Pro. Never looked back.

Integration between my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro, and Mac Mini is damn near seamless and only getting better.

I just need my computer to work when I want it to. I have no want to find drivers or diagnose problems.
 

Keehs360

Autocross Champion
It’s simple for me. I owned enough windows machine to the point I “overpaid” for my first Mac. With all the money I paid for in windows machines, including new parts and upgraded parts, I could have bought one Mac. My first one lasted almost ten years. I only replaced it because it was still a 32 bit system and everything was converting to 64 so support went away.

A computer is an appliance. I need it be fast and reliable. I grew tired of driver issues, hardware update requirements and such to keep the machine going. Everything I use on Windows was available for Mac and runs smoother and more reliably. This includes non App Store applications, like Arduino IDE, FreeCAD, GIMP, Audacity and others. I got a free laptop from mother in law with windows. She never really used it so it was a clean slate. I installed the aforementioned apps and everything was fine. For a bit. I store my data off machine as habit, for some reason the machine started getting slower and slower to the point of being unusable. I got rid of it and replaced it with a MacBook Pro. Never looked back.

Integration between my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro, and Mac Mini is damn near seamless and only getting better.

I just need my computer to work when I want it to. I have no want to find drivers or diagnose problems.
My friend went all in with apples home kit. His whole house is a smart house. Blinds, alarm sensors, garage door, key locks, door bell cam, everything

building that out using hubitat and zigbee and zwave and then setting up the rules and commands would cost like 40% less but would take me at least 3-5 hours to program to my liking. Where as this guy had a training wheels experience and every set up was fast as shit. Convenience can be purchased and IMO worth it. Especially his apple thread bulbs
 

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
It’s simple for me. I owned enough windows machine to the point I “overpaid” for my first Mac. With all the money I paid for in windows machines, including new parts and upgraded parts, I could have bought one Mac. My first one lasted almost ten years. I only replaced it because it was still a 32 bit system and everything was converting to 64 so support went away.

A computer is an appliance. I need it be fast and reliable. I grew tired of driver issues, hardware update requirements and such to keep the machine going. Everything I use on Windows was available for Mac and runs smoother and more reliably. This includes non App Store applications, like Arduino IDE, FreeCAD, GIMP, Audacity and others. I got a free laptop from mother in law with windows. She never really used it so it was a clean slate. I installed the aforementioned apps and everything was fine. For a bit. I store my data off machine as habit, for some reason the machine started getting slower and slower to the point of being unusable. I got rid of it and replaced it with a MacBook Pro. Never looked back.

Integration between my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Pro, and Mac Mini is damn near seamless and only getting better.

I just need my computer to work when I want it to. I have no want to find drivers or diagnose problems.
Exactly. Your windows experience is generally everyones general cycle as you start to load more stuff and you eventually load something that is poorly written and starts stepping all over your good software. And I share your Mac experience and view. My Macbook Pro is from 2013 and has not missed a beat, never had a virus, never crashed, never had to reboot or reload it and it is used daily. Most ardent windows users are reluctant to consider Macs just because switching puts you in a new environment and you do have to learn how things work in the new environment but making the switch is worth it unless you play a lot of games.
 

gixxerfool

Drag Racing Champion
My friend went all in with apples home kit. His whole house is a smart house. Blinds, alarm sensors, garage door, key locks, door bell cam, everything

building that out using hubitat and zigbee and zwave and then setting up the rules and commands would cost like 40% less but would take me at least 3-5 hours to program to my liking. Where as this guy had a training wheels experience and every set up was fast as shit. Convenience can be purchased and IMO worth it. Especially his apple thread bulbs
I’ve been slowly integrating my smart home devices. It’s hard to find products that integrate with HomeKit natively. From what I have read the encryption is a bastard to work with. That’s a plus for me. There is a raspberry pi setup you can build, can’t recall the name, basically it will bridge not HomeKit devices with HomeKit. It does all the heavy lifting. I am still considering it. I have other projects right now I’m trying to finish before the next semester starts. So it needs to wait.
 

gixxerfool

Drag Racing Champion
Exactly. Your windows experience is generally everyones general cycle as you start to load more stuff and you eventually load something that is poorly written and starts stepping all over your good software. And I share your Mac experience and view. My Macbook Pro is from 2013 and has not missed a beat, never had a virus, never crashed, never had to reboot or reload it and it is used daily. Most ardent windows users are reluctant to consider Macs just because switching puts you in a new environment and you do have to learn how things work in the new environment but making the switch is worth it unless you play a lot of games.
Not to mention support, let me take my ASUS to the ASUS store…can’t. They have replaced phones for me that were way out of warranty, and likely needed replacement anyways, gratis. I’m willing to pay extra for ease of use and support.
 
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