the bruce
Go Kart Champion
Official Sway Bar Spec & Discussion Thread
1.
I collected the most interesting sway bar specs that can be used on both
Mk.V and Mk.VI GTI (FWD) and R32/R (4-motion):
car model/manufacturer, front bar dia x wall thickness, rear bar x wall thickness
stock (most are hollow, see wall thickness):
standard Golf/TDI/A3: 21.7x3.0 or 22.5x.3.5 / 18.5x2.5 or 19.6x2.6 or 20.7x2.8
Scirocco: 21.7x3.0 or 22.5x.3.5 / 20.7x2.8 or 21.7x3.0
TT-RS quattro: 22,0 solid mm solid / 18.5 x 2.5 mm
A3 Ambition/S-Line FWD: 22,5 x 3,5 / 20,7 x 2,8
Golf V GTI: 23,6 x 3,5 / 21,7 x 3,0
Golf V R32: 22,0 solid / 21,7 x 3,0 (4-motion)
Golf VI GTI: 23,6 x 3,5 / 21,7 x 3,0 PR-0BF or 21,7 x 3,6 PR-0BM (DCC?)
Golf VI R: 22,0 solid / 21,7 x 3,6 (4-motion)
Scirocco R: 23,6 x 3,5 / 21,7 x 3,6
Touran 170 PS: 23,0 solid / 21,7 x 3,0
Passat R36: 23,6 solid / 21,7 x 3,6 (4-motion)
Sharan 2011 on: 24.0 mm solid / 20.0 mm solid
after market (almost all are solid):
H&R 'small': 26 / 22 mm
SPM: 26 / 22 mm
Eibach AntiRoll: 26 / 23 mm
KW clubsport: 26 / 23 mm (made by Eibach)
VW Racing: 26 / 23 mm (made by Eibach, discontinued)
SuperPro: 24 / 22 mm FWD
SuperPro: 24 / 24 (26) mm AWD
ECS: 26 / 23 mm
Whiteline: 24 / 24 mm (3-way adjustable)
Autotech: 25 / 25 mm (tube/hollow; reliability issues)
Neuspeed: 25 / 25 mm (tube/hollow; also 28 mm rear avail.; reliability issues)
BFI/Stabila: -- / 25 mm rear only (different versions for FWD and AWD)
034Motorsport: 25.4 mm rear only
Hotchkis: 27 / 27 mm (tube/hollow)
APR: 27 / 27 mm (tube/hollow; made by Hotchkis)
BSH: -- / 27 mm (3-way) rear only
H&R 'big': 28 / 24 mm (AWE/H&R 28 mm rear bar discontinued)
H&R TT Quattro: 24 / 22 mm incl. TT-RS (4WD only)
H&R 4-motion/Quattro: 24 / 26 mm (4WD only)
I don't know if Autotech and Neuspeed bars do come from the same manufacturer.
Suspiciously both share the same dimensions and similar reliability probs.
2.
I also compared several arm length ratios:
Eibach front 26 mm: 190 and 210 mm
Eibach rear 23 mm: 160 and 175 mm
H&R front 28 mm: 198 and 218 mm
H&R rear 24 mm: 140 and 160 mm
Whiteline front 24 mm: 199, 217 and 235 mm
Whiteline rear 24 mm: 205, 215 and 225 mm
There are some differences, particularly on rear. The H&R are shortest, Whiteline are longest.
Keep in mind H&R kits come with a bigger front bar, so this matches the different arm lengths.
3.
Last not least, an example of sway bar rates:
This is the sway bar stiffness in N/mm.
short arm vs. long arm
- stock front sway bar Mk.V/VI GTI, diameter 23,6 x 3,5 mm - tube:
c = 65,6 N/mm
- H&R front sway bar, diameter 28 mm - solid:
c = 172 N/mm center (~ 156 N/mm long and 188 N/mm short arm)
- stock rear sway bar Mk.V/VI GTI, dia 21,7 x 3 mm - tube:
c = 59,5 N/mm
- H&R rear sway bar, diameter. 24 mm - solid:
c = 122,7 N/mm center (~ 109 N/mm long and 139 N/mm short arm)
Obviously the rear H&R doubles the torsional resistance, the front H&R even is 2.5 to
almost 3 times stiffer.
Stiffness Specs of 2013 VWR sway bars:
VWRPA014A:
1. 56.4N/mm; +32%
2. 69.1N/mm; +44%
3. 86.5N/mm; +55%
VWRPA015B:
1. 50.2N/mm; +9%
2. 66.9N/mm; +31%
3. 93.4N/mm; +51%
VWRPA014B:
1. 88.2N/mm; +46%
2. 116.9N/mm; +59%
3. 161.7N/mm; +70%
The % seem a little bit confusing when proved data states the stock GTI sways
already are 65,6 N/mm front and 59,5 N/mm rear.
Uprated sway bares used together with common coilovers, body roll
should be only half as much compared to stock at the same cornering
speed.
Why I don't recommend fitting a bigger rear sway while leaving the front
one stock:
Bear in mind a GTI's sway bar rates are 65,6 N/mm front and 59,5 N/mm
rear, which equals a 52:48 % ratio, while the weight distribution is 60:40.
In some way we could conclude stock sways already are rear biased !!!
Ok, this is just half the truth. While the GTI's rear sway bar ist still stiffer
in relation to the weight, this isn't necessarily true for roll stiffness, as the
roll center ist also an equally significiant factor. And yes, roll centers aren't
same height front and rear. Unfortunately reliable data is hard to obtain.
However, while a too-stiff rear sway might give you funny turning at lower
speeds and narrow corners, it will also cause dagerous high-speed oversteer.
DO NOT TAKE A RISK - NO FUN, DUDES !!!!
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/BL-281.pdf
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/010barup.pdf
Installation:
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59709
See also ECS and Futrell videos on YT.
Prices:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_VI--2.0T/Suspension/Sway_Bar/
1.
I collected the most interesting sway bar specs that can be used on both
Mk.V and Mk.VI GTI (FWD) and R32/R (4-motion):
car model/manufacturer, front bar dia x wall thickness, rear bar x wall thickness
stock (most are hollow, see wall thickness):
standard Golf/TDI/A3: 21.7x3.0 or 22.5x.3.5 / 18.5x2.5 or 19.6x2.6 or 20.7x2.8
Scirocco: 21.7x3.0 or 22.5x.3.5 / 20.7x2.8 or 21.7x3.0
TT-RS quattro: 22,0 solid mm solid / 18.5 x 2.5 mm
A3 Ambition/S-Line FWD: 22,5 x 3,5 / 20,7 x 2,8
Golf V GTI: 23,6 x 3,5 / 21,7 x 3,0
Golf V R32: 22,0 solid / 21,7 x 3,0 (4-motion)
Golf VI GTI: 23,6 x 3,5 / 21,7 x 3,0 PR-0BF or 21,7 x 3,6 PR-0BM (DCC?)
Golf VI R: 22,0 solid / 21,7 x 3,6 (4-motion)
Scirocco R: 23,6 x 3,5 / 21,7 x 3,6
Touran 170 PS: 23,0 solid / 21,7 x 3,0
Passat R36: 23,6 solid / 21,7 x 3,6 (4-motion)
Sharan 2011 on: 24.0 mm solid / 20.0 mm solid
after market (almost all are solid):
H&R 'small': 26 / 22 mm
SPM: 26 / 22 mm
Eibach AntiRoll: 26 / 23 mm
KW clubsport: 26 / 23 mm (made by Eibach)
VW Racing: 26 / 23 mm (made by Eibach, discontinued)
SuperPro: 24 / 22 mm FWD
SuperPro: 24 / 24 (26) mm AWD
ECS: 26 / 23 mm
Whiteline: 24 / 24 mm (3-way adjustable)
Autotech: 25 / 25 mm (tube/hollow; reliability issues)
Neuspeed: 25 / 25 mm (tube/hollow; also 28 mm rear avail.; reliability issues)
BFI/Stabila: -- / 25 mm rear only (different versions for FWD and AWD)
034Motorsport: 25.4 mm rear only
Hotchkis: 27 / 27 mm (tube/hollow)
APR: 27 / 27 mm (tube/hollow; made by Hotchkis)
BSH: -- / 27 mm (3-way) rear only
H&R 'big': 28 / 24 mm (AWE/H&R 28 mm rear bar discontinued)
H&R TT Quattro: 24 / 22 mm incl. TT-RS (4WD only)
H&R 4-motion/Quattro: 24 / 26 mm (4WD only)
I don't know if Autotech and Neuspeed bars do come from the same manufacturer.
Suspiciously both share the same dimensions and similar reliability probs.
2.
I also compared several arm length ratios:
Eibach front 26 mm: 190 and 210 mm
Eibach rear 23 mm: 160 and 175 mm
H&R front 28 mm: 198 and 218 mm
H&R rear 24 mm: 140 and 160 mm
Whiteline front 24 mm: 199, 217 and 235 mm
Whiteline rear 24 mm: 205, 215 and 225 mm
There are some differences, particularly on rear. The H&R are shortest, Whiteline are longest.
Keep in mind H&R kits come with a bigger front bar, so this matches the different arm lengths.
3.
Last not least, an example of sway bar rates:
This is the sway bar stiffness in N/mm.
short arm vs. long arm
- stock front sway bar Mk.V/VI GTI, diameter 23,6 x 3,5 mm - tube:
c = 65,6 N/mm
- H&R front sway bar, diameter 28 mm - solid:
c = 172 N/mm center (~ 156 N/mm long and 188 N/mm short arm)
- stock rear sway bar Mk.V/VI GTI, dia 21,7 x 3 mm - tube:
c = 59,5 N/mm
- H&R rear sway bar, diameter. 24 mm - solid:
c = 122,7 N/mm center (~ 109 N/mm long and 139 N/mm short arm)
Obviously the rear H&R doubles the torsional resistance, the front H&R even is 2.5 to
almost 3 times stiffer.
Stiffness Specs of 2013 VWR sway bars:
VWRPA014A:
1. 56.4N/mm; +32%
2. 69.1N/mm; +44%
3. 86.5N/mm; +55%
VWRPA015B:
1. 50.2N/mm; +9%
2. 66.9N/mm; +31%
3. 93.4N/mm; +51%
VWRPA014B:
1. 88.2N/mm; +46%
2. 116.9N/mm; +59%
3. 161.7N/mm; +70%
The % seem a little bit confusing when proved data states the stock GTI sways
already are 65,6 N/mm front and 59,5 N/mm rear.
Uprated sway bares used together with common coilovers, body roll
should be only half as much compared to stock at the same cornering
speed.
Why I don't recommend fitting a bigger rear sway while leaving the front
one stock:
Bear in mind a GTI's sway bar rates are 65,6 N/mm front and 59,5 N/mm
rear, which equals a 52:48 % ratio, while the weight distribution is 60:40.
In some way we could conclude stock sways already are rear biased !!!
Ok, this is just half the truth. While the GTI's rear sway bar ist still stiffer
in relation to the weight, this isn't necessarily true for roll stiffness, as the
roll center ist also an equally significiant factor. And yes, roll centers aren't
same height front and rear. Unfortunately reliable data is hard to obtain.
However, while a too-stiff rear sway might give you funny turning at lower
speeds and narrow corners, it will also cause dagerous high-speed oversteer.
DO NOT TAKE A RISK - NO FUN, DUDES !!!!
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/BL-281.pdf
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/010barup.pdf
Installation:
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59709
See also ECS and Futrell videos on YT.
Prices:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_VI--2.0T/Suspension/Sway_Bar/
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