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Rest of America: get ready to suffer through CA Emissions standards

Noize

Go Kart Champion
CA 91 is MUCH different than any other 91 you can get in other states.

If your car is tuned, it will absolutely make less power.

My STI made 15whp more at 5,600 feet than it did at sea level on CA 91.

I know a few things about tuning. :)
91 will of course make less power than 93, but the rest of the USA isn't getting 91. The OP either drew the wrong conclusion from the article (likely) or has now switched his story that he made that sensational BS thread title to draw attention to a performance meaningless article on sulfur content. The article instead has everything to do with helping the environment, not a loss of octane which has zero to do with sulfur content.

CN: Relax, your 93 octane isn't going anywhere and the sky isn't falling.
 

PeeLo801

Ready to race!
ITT: people who don't read. Its proposed, not passed. And its not 91oct for America. OP fail.


It would only count as a fail if I was trying to succeed at something and if I had an agenda, neither of which applied to my post. I merely wanted to share an article that I thought car enthusiasts across America would feel inclined to know about. Even if it wasn't about 91 octane, there are still implications, passed or not, about the rest of the nation adopting CA emissions standards; if you talk to anyone who mods cars, it is a total pain in the ass to have such strict emissions standards, almost to the point of being discouraged from doing so. And I felt this was important to share. If there was any point to my post, then it was this. For the record, I did not draw the conclusion thinking that this actually had anything to do with octanes changing for other states.

Having said that, since people are getting upset over the title, and my seemingly ignorant :rolleyes: post, I just changed the title for you all so that it directly relates to the article.

Now, please proceed with all of your insight on this matter and have a good discussion, rather than resorting to name calling and insults as if it will have any effect on me. Unless you just feel it is an outright useless point to have posted it then I'll respect your opinion.
 
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nouse4aname

Go Kart Champion
Please do a little bit of research before posting this nonsensical dribble. California (and most of the western US) does not have 91AKI gasoline because of emissions laws.

It it because a Company named UnoCal owns the patents on creating fuel that meets CARB standards for 92 and above AKI fuel.


That kinda sounds like it's because of emissions laws...
 

maxtdi

Go Kart Champion
Its fine honestly
 

DarkCloak

Banned
That kinda sounds like it's because of emissions laws...

Somewhat, although the connection is indirect. But for the advanced stage catalytic cracking fuels (>91AKI) CARB required you the Oil Companies to use oxygenation procedures owned by UnoCal after UnoCal intense lobbying efforts. Since UnoCal wanted to charge extra none of the other oil companies wanted to play along and pay the extra 5 cents/gallon. UnoCal also no longer sells fuel directly so there is no 93AKI in California.

Hence I would say that do to the politics involved in California and oil lobbyists resulted in us getting 91 AKI. On the plu side though I can buy 100AKI all over the place out here and when I lived in the South I had never seen a 100AKI pump!
 

McQueen77

Banned
This is not true. 91AKI is 91AKI as they are both corrected to sea level and calculated by the R+M/2 method . Now if you were overseas and your vehicle was running 91RON that would be a different story as it would only be the R part of the equation thus equating to a lower AKI value.

Your car will make less horsepower at 5,600 ft because of the elevation not the fuel. In a standard atmosphere at 29.92inHg/1013.2mb at 15C/59F there is a standard lapse rate of 2C/thousand but more significantly you lose 1inHg per thousand feet of altitude thus if you were in an airplane taking off at sea level and climbed to 5600ft AGL the pressure would drop to 24.32inHg of mercury at altitude. Thus your car is making less horsepower due to the reduced atmospheric pressure not because of the fuels anti knock index. On a side note this lapse is also how an aircraft altimeter determines the altitude of the aircraft.

It is also extremely important to not that your car in Idaho was obviously on a different dyno than the one in California as they are obviously not easily transported. Were they even the same brand? Probably not. Were they calibrated to the same standard? Probably not? Did you have similar meteorological conditions with equal Altimeter settings and equal temperatures that day. No

Your post is useless

Your post rules dude. I love when people chime in who actually know what theyre talking about


Eat my asshole California. :thumbdown:

I will keep my catless downpipe, NO emissions checks and 94 & turbo blue.

SMH

Sweet. I dont care if your car blows gold coins out of its tailpipes and you still get to own slaves and marry your sister, you can have Kentucky, sport
 
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TRUboost

Go Kart Champion
This is not true. 91AKI is 91AKI as they are both corrected to sea level and calculated by the R+M/2 method . Now if you were overseas and your vehicle was running 91RON that would be a different story as it would only be the R part of the equation thus equating to a lower AKI value.

Your car will make less horsepower at 5,600 ft because of the elevation not the fuel. In a standard atmosphere at 29.92inHg/1013.2mb at 15C/59F there is a standard lapse rate of 2C/thousand but more significantly you lose 1inHg per thousand feet of altitude thus if you were in an airplane taking off at sea level and climbed to 5600ft AGL the pressure would drop to 24.32inHg of mercury at altitude. Thus your car is making less horsepower due to the reduced atmospheric pressure not because of the fuels anti knock index. On a side note this lapse is also how an aircraft altimeter determines the altitude of the aircraft.

It is also extremely important to not that your car in Idaho was obviously on a different dyno than the one in California as they are obviously not easily transported. Were they even the same brand? Probably not. Were they calibrated to the same standard? Probably not? Did you have similar meteorological conditions with equal Altimeter settings and equal temperatures that day. No

Your post is useless

Then riddle me this batman.

Why does COBB tuning release specific maps for CA fuel for EVERY car they tune using lower timing values to reduce knock? If the fuels are exaclty the same as you claim then there would be absolutely no reason for this.



Butt posted from my Galaxy Note II
 

DarkCloak

Banned
Then riddle me this batman.

Why does COBB tuning release specific maps for CA fuel for EVERY car they tune using lower timing values to reduce knock? If the fuels are exaclty the same as you claim then there would be absolutely no reason for this.



Butt posted from my Galaxy Note II

Well I am not Batman. I do though bear a striking resemblance to Christain Bale but I am substantially more ripped. Your claim was that the Anti Knock Index (AKI) was different not that the fuels formula were different. The fuels are different all over the nation and world. In fact almost every state has both a summer and a winter blend that utilize different formulas. This is why fuel is most expensive in the end of spring/beginning of summer as the oil companies are reformulating for the change in season. If they used the winter blend excessive amounts of fuel would evaporate in the higher summer temps. Different mfrs also use their own blends. Is Shell exactly the same as Sunoco? or 76? or Conoco?

If you want an answer for COBB Tuning I suggest you contact them yourself. I searched all over their website and typed in COBB and California but received only a T-shirt under California and "No results" under CARB. It is possible you are lying, that would require a deliberate effort though. More likely you are simply an individual who simply talks out of his ass regardless of his knowledge level thus I can not consider you to be a liar.

Your claim that your car made 15more WHP in Idaho because of superior fuel and is utter nonsense. It is more logical to theorize that the difference in horsepower was due to the different dyno measuring the horsepower.

I dynoed my car as making 314whp on 91AKI in California. Many people are producing less than that in other states and some have produced less on 93AKI running 93 octane maps. Is it because I had substantially different 91AKI? No, it was because I was on a Dynojet and others were on Mustangs, Dynapacks, and other dynos that utilize different formulas to calculate the power, and may or may not be calibrated to the same level as they are owned by different people. Also, the pressure and temp varies day to day. If you have a cold front with associated high surface pressure move through your area in the winter you will produce more power than with a surface Low during the summer months. Every year in Indianapolis there is a phenomenon known as Happy Hour when an Arctic High moves in across the Great Lakes dropping air temps on the surface by up to 15F while the asphalt which takes longer to cool as the Earth is a superior conductor of heat to air stays warm. This results in a vehicle with both max traction and max power! Guess what? The Pole qualifier is almost every year an individual who qualifies during this time. Owners such as Chip Gannassi and Roger Penske lobby very hard to get this time slot.

Also what was the condition of the vehicle each day? If you are running a car that has a new air filter, clutch, spark plugs, and oil the car will be producing more horsepower under like conditions than vehicle in need of a tune up with a slipping clutch. These items must be "controlled" for in order to test the variable of the gasoline.
 
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