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Stumbling start (intermittently, so that's fun [still not fixed, apparently])?

avenali312

Autocross Champion
Location
Mableton, GA
Car(s)
2015 GTI
Well, pretty big update here, but not a positive one...

After a few days of zero issues and checking battery voltages, I went ahead and replaced the battery this morning with another H6 AGM. Did the coding (mostly just the serial number change since the rest of the battery specs were identical). All was good and no issues all day.

This evening we stopped for dinner. Parked the car, it sat for about an hour, maybe an hour and a half, and went to leave. The car just cranked and cranked, even after I let off the key (2015, so an actual key in an ignition). The first time I attempted it didn't start. I tried again, same thing cranked for a good 3 to 5 seconds and finally rolled over and stumbled up to idle RPM. Once it was running, it was fine the entire trip home.

A couple of notes:
- Old battery yesterday in 50 degree temps was resting at 12.22v, which seems lower.
- New battery today in the same temps was resting at 12.72, which seems to be normal for an AGM in this temp when charged.
- While running, the multimeter is showing 13.99v, which seems to point to the alternator doing its job.
- The last three times this has happened, the car was parked outside (no issues while in the home garage or interior of the work parking garage).

Not sure if the starter is next, or maybe one of the fuel pumps, but I don't really know a way to test those on their own.

No CEL, but I do plan on scanning for codes in the morning. I'm letting it sit in the garage for about an hour tonight and am going to attempt to start it again. If it fires right up, I might back it out and leave it outside for the night.

Some threads I came across that sound similar:
- https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/extended-cranking-on-warm-engine.365159/
- https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?threads/stalling-and-cranking-no-resolution.373844/

That last post is concerning, since it sounds like it eventually got worse to the point of stalling while running, and there's no resolution listed :(
 

avenali312

Autocross Champion
Location
Mableton, GA
Car(s)
2015 GTI
Car fired right up this morning after sitting overnight outside the garage. No clue what is going on, but I do have a couple of engine codes. Scan attached below. Some of them are probably from replacing the battery yesterday (TPMS, etc.).

Code:
OBDeleven data log

Date: 2024-01-31 08:53

    VIN: 3VW4T7AU3FM098625
    Car: Volkswagen Golf GTI
    Year: 2015
    Body type: 5-dr hatchback
    Engine: CXCA
    Mileage: 119516 KM

---------------------------------------------------------------
01 Engine

    System description: 2.0l R4 TFSI
    Software number: 5G0906259A
    Software version: 0006
    Hardware number: 06K907425B
    Hardware version: H13
    ODX name: EV_ECM20TFS0205G0906259A
    ODX version: 001008
    Long coding: 091D00124424002F0000

    Trouble codes:
        U112300 - Databus error value received
            Intermittent
        P044100 - EVAP Emission Contr.Sys.Incorrect Purge Flow
            Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
02 Transmission

    System description: DQ250-6F MQB
    Software number: 0D9300041T
    Software version: 4511
    Hardware number: 02E927770AQ
    Hardware version: H53
    Serial number: TFK01503230338
    ODX name: EV_TCMDQ250021
    ODX version: 001001
    Long coding: 0014

    Trouble codes:
        P173400 - Starter release from the selector lever sensor system
            Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
03 Brakes

    System description: ESC
    Software number: 3Q0907379P
    Software version: 0385
    Hardware number: 3Q0907379C
    Hardware version: H32
    Serial number: 51185000002057
    ODX name: EV_Brake1UDSContiMK100ESP
    ODX version: 034033
    Long coding: 01FA6BA134290974007D020281C82980D62C9000408194B400430050C006

    Trouble codes:
        B116816 - Steering angle sensor Voltage too low
            Intermittent
        C102D00 - Tire pressure warning
            Intermittent
        C114602 - Tire pressure monitoring display Signal error
            Intermittent
        C114602 - Tire pressure monitoring display Signal error
            Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
08 Air Conditioning

    System description: AC Manuell
    Software number: 5GM907426A
    Software version: 1001
    Hardware number: 5GM907426A
    Hardware version: H02
    ODX name: EV_ACManueBHBVW37X
    ODX version: 003019
    Long coding: 00020004200100000000000000000000

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
09 Central Electrics

    System description: BCM PQ37BOSCH
    Software number: 5Q0937087R
    Software version: 0145
    Hardware number: 5Q0937087R
    Hardware version: 028
    Serial number: 86580904151260
    ODX name: EV_BodyContrModul1UDSBosc
    ODX version: 014004
    Long coding: 00001A464041A04969E44000001407201000000000000000000000000000

    Subsystems:
        System description: WWS    150403
        Software version: 0581
        Hardware version: 043
        Serial number:         150525080038
        Long coding: 0E4DDD

    Trouble codes:
        B1806F0 - Heated seat passenger's side Safety shutdon due to occupant detection
            Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
15 Airbag

    System description: AirbagVW20
    Software number: 5Q0959655T
    Software version: 0825
    Hardware number: 5Q0959655T
    Hardware version: 009
    Serial number: 003MHM02B6WT
    ODX name: EV_AirbaVW20SMEVW37X
    ODX version: 002138
    Long coding: 8CCCFC00000000005000001AC24800000065

    Subsystems:
        System description: BF-Gewichtss.
        Software version: 0021
        Hardware version: H11
        Serial number: IBH0000J150002RWO10S
        Long coding: 30305A

        System description: SideSensor_Df
        Software version: 0887
        Hardware version: 001
        Serial number: 3570000000014295F31C
        Long coding: 2D2D2D

        System description: SideSensor_Pf
        Software version: 0887
        Hardware version: 001
        Serial number: 3580000000047881E31J
        Long coding: 2D2D2D

        System description: SideSensor_Dr
        Software version: 6149
        Hardware version: 001
        Serial number: 3510002B71A14CA2707/
        Long coding: 2D2D2D

        System description: SideSensor_Pr
        Software version: 6149
        Hardware version: 001
        Serial number: 3520002A31A8785331F0
        Long coding: 2D2D2D

        System description: FrontSensor_D
        Software version: 6149
        Hardware version: 001
        Serial number: 3550002BB19EFF53640N
        Long coding: 2D2D2D

        System description: FrontSensor_P
        Software version: 6149
        Hardware version: 001
        Serial number: 3560002A519EFF55830K
        Long coding: 2D2D2D

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
16 Steering Column

    System description: Lenks.Modul
    Software number: 5Q0953521P
    Software version: 0175
    Hardware number: 5Q0953569A
    Hardware version: 075
    Serial number: 20150327401076
    ODX name: EV_SMLSVALEOMQB
    ODX version: 001015
    Long coding: 0410

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
17 Dashboard

    System description: KOMBI
    Software number: 5G1920856
    Software version: 4270
    Hardware number: 5G1920856
    Hardware version: 342
    ODX name: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBAB
    ODX version: 009037
    Long coding: 07BD090A2980CF0502086A001000000000000000

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
19 Gateway

    System description: GW MQB High
    Software number: 5Q0907530AC
    Software version: 2203
    Hardware number: 5Q0907530M
    Hardware version: 212
    Serial number: 29041510002122
    ODX name: EV_GatewConti
    ODX version: 011020
    Long coding: 0101000820085900EF00002A1C0F00000001050000000000000000000000

    Subsystems:
        System description: E221__MFL-DC1
        Software version: 0101
        Hardware version: H10
        Serial number: 29150000768150075173
        Long coding: 31FFFF

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
42 Driver Door

    System description: TSG FS
    Software number: 5Q0959593B
    Software version: 0025
    Hardware number: 5Q0959593B
    Hardware version: 020
    Serial number: 18051506050FCT
    ODX name: EV_DCUDriveSideEWMAXKLO
    ODX version: 006003
    Long coding: 003E03200000040000000000

    Subsystems:
        System description: Fond FHSG DRV
        Software version: 0002
        Hardware version: 007
        Serial number: 00000000000001184479
        Long coding: 011000

    Trouble codes:
        B11F814 - Heated outside rear-view mirror Open circuit/short circuit to ground
            static


---------------------------------------------------------------
44 Steering Assistance

    System description: EPS_MQB_ZFLS
    Software number: 3Q0909144H
    Software version: 5061
    Hardware number: 3Q0909144H
    Hardware version: 505
    ODX name: EV_SteerAssisMQB
    ODX version: 012140
    Long coding: 8102

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
52 Passenger Door

    System description: TSG BFS
    Software number: 5Q0959592B
    Software version: 0025
    Hardware number: 5Q0959592B
    Hardware version: 020
    Serial number: 120515060507SE
    ODX name: EV_DCUPasseSideEWMAXKLO
    ODX version: 006003
    Long coding: 003E03200C00040000000000

    Subsystems:
        System description: Fond FHSG PSG
        Software version: 0002
        Hardware version: 007
        Serial number: 00000000000001186198
        Long coding: 091000

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
55 Headlight Regulation

    System description: AFS-ECU
    Software number: 7P6907357D
    Software version: 0090
    Hardware number: 7P6907357A
    Hardware version: H07
    Serial number: --------------
    ODX name: EV_HeadlRegulVWAFSMQB
    ODX version: 001120
    Long coding: 021801010B000400

    Subsystems:
        System description: LeiMo links
        Software version: 0004
        Hardware version: H01
        Long coding: 2E0000

        System description: LeiMo rechts
        Software version: 0004
        Hardware version: H01
        Long coding: 2E0000

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
5F Multimedia

    System description: MU-S-S-US
    Software number: 5G0035844
    Software version: 0655
    Hardware number: 5G0035844
    Hardware version: 014
    Serial number: V7B01604152375
    ODX name: EV_MUStd4CPASE
    ODX version: 002040
    Long coding: 02730000FF00000021220001001800001F0203040100010002

    Subsystems:
        System description: ABT_Std_Plus
        Software version: 0030
        Hardware version: H60
        Serial number: VWZ8Z9RS501QPP     

    Trouble codes:
        B11CF53 - Tuner for satellite radio Deactivated
            static
        B11CF96 - Tuner for satellite radio Internal malfunction
            Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
75 Telematics

    System description: OCULowMQBUS
    Software number: 5QE035285A
    Software version: 0564
    Hardware number: 5QE035285A
    Hardware version: 007
    ODX name: EV_OCULowMQB
    ODX version: 001003
    Long coding: 02730002C2821A017F1E06000000

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
A9 Structure Borne Sound

    System description: SAS-GEN 2
    Software number: 5G0907159
    Software version: 0014
    Hardware number: 4H0907159A
    Hardware version: H06
    Serial number: 150320201417
    ODX name: EV_SoundActuaGen2AU64X
    ODX version: 003010

    Trouble codes:
        No trouble codes found
 

avenali312

Autocross Champion
Location
Mableton, GA
Car(s)
2015 GTI
Clear them, but that first one is where I'd start my investigation.
The Databus Error or the EVAP one?

They have been cleared. Maybe I'll find a reason to go get lunch today and drive it a bit to see which ones return.
 

avenali312

Autocross Champion
Location
Mableton, GA
Car(s)
2015 GTI
Yeah, quick searching points to purge valves, charcoal canister, and other fueling stuff I know absolutely nothing about haha.

I do know that I don't overfill the tank, but I do fill up whenever getting gas. Standard procedure is putting the filler handle on the slow notch, wait for it to fill, let it click off and that's it. No more fuel added after that first click.
 

avenali312

Autocross Champion
Location
Mableton, GA
Car(s)
2015 GTI
Yeah, that evap code could be related here - N80 purge valve and/or PCV are known to fail and easy to change.
Yeah, I was just enrolled at YouTube University regarding testing the N80. Seems simple enough to check and could be causing excess fuel vapors that need to be burned off before it will start, which could be why it cranks forever and then fires.
 

avenali312

Autocross Champion
Location
Mableton, GA
Car(s)
2015 GTI
pull the charcoal cannister and shake it. If it's full of fuel then it needs to be blown out and the jet pump inside the tank replaced.
Was this the same thing that would have been replaced by the dealer during that recall/TSB?
 

AdamSheikh

Autocross Champion
Location
FLL
Car(s)
15 GTI | 24 RS 3
Was this the same thing that would have been replaced by the dealer during that recall/TSB?
Yes, but they have been known to fail again (ask me how I know). That said, you would probably have a stumbling idle and trouble fueling up if the issue was suction pump related. Have you noticed if the issue is more or less prevalent depending on your fuel level?
 

avenali312

Autocross Champion
Location
Mableton, GA
Car(s)
2015 GTI
Yes, but they have been known to fail again (ask me how I know). That said, you would probably have a stumbling idle and trouble fueling up if the issue was suction pump related. Have you noticed if the issue is more or less prevalent depending on your fuel level?
I really haven't been paying attention. I would say that I am currently sitting at 3/4 of a tank. The last time this happened this badly was on a road trip to Florida. I had just filled up probably an hour or so before letting the car sit (after some Google Mapping, about 80 miles). So, I was probably down a couple/few gallons by then.

A couple of things I just checked out:
- I watched this just as a quick intro to how these things work:
- My N80 does seem to be functioning properly in that it is closed while warming up and then starts pulling vacuum when warm
- I took it out and tapped it and nothing came out (Humble Mechanic mentioned charcoal pieces could fall out)

Probably more important of note:
- The first thing I checked was the gas cap seal --> It looks good, no cracks or anything
- When I removed the gas cap, there was quite a bit of pressure built up and exhausted (probably 2-3 seconds of release)
- I feel like this last point is important, but I don't know how so haha
 
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