Tesla Manipulating Range?

[The Fed]

Reuters Accuses Tesla of Battery Range Manipulation​

Report alleges 'Diversion Team' was formed to deal with battery range complaints

By Kate Seamons, Newser Staff Posted Jul 28, 2023 7:53 AM CDT

Tesla Supercharger is seen in Rolling Meadows, Ill., Monday, Jan. 30, 2023. (AP Photo/Nam Y. Huh, File)

A lengthy investigation by Reuters alleges that Tesla's batteries haven't always had the range the company touts—and that the company in 2022 put together a special team whose job was to try to convince drivers seeking service on their batteries to cancel those appointments. Neither Tesla nor Elon Musk commented for the article, which alleges that Tesla "rigged" its range-estimating software about a decade ago by relying on an algorithm that would initially project a robust range on a full battery. A source tells Reuters that once the battery's charge dropped under 50%, the algorithm would adjust the read-out to show the true number.



Reuters "could not determine whether Tesla still uses algorithms that boost in-dash range estimates," but notes that "automotive testers and regulators" have recently flagged this very issue; South Korean regulators, for instance, fined the company earlier this year after determining the cars had as little as half the in-dash range estimate under cold-weather conditions. Reuters' sources further say that a "Diversion Team" located in Las Vegas is tasked with trying to get Tesla owners to cancel service appointments related to range concerns. Sources say the team was told that each axed appointment would save Tesla $1,000 and take the pressure off of overloaded service centers. Canceled appointments are reportedly sometimes celebrated by chiming a metal xylophone kept in the office. (Read the lengthy investigation in full.)

 

[cb1111]

What????? Car manufacturers exaggerating or not telling the truth?

Say it isn't so....

 

[vjmvjm]

From a Nissan dealer:

Disclaimer​

While every effort has been made to ensure display of accurate data, the vehicle listings within this web site may not reflect all accurate vehicle items. All Inventory listed is subject to prior sale. The vehicle photo displayed may be an example only. Please see the dealer for details. Vehicles may be in transit or currently in production. Some vehicles shown with optional equipment. See the actual vehicle for complete accuracy of features, options & pricing. Because of the numerous possible combinations of vehicle models, styles, colors and options, the vehicle pictures on this site may not match your vehicle exactly; however, it will match as closely as possible. Some vehicle images shown are stock photos and may not reflect your exact choice of vehicle, color, trim and specification. Not responsible for pricing or typographical errors.

Virtual Inventory, Available Configurations and In-Transit inventory contains vehicles that have not actually been manufactured. These vehicles show consumers sample vehicles that may be available. Pricing, Options, Color and other data pertaining to these vehicles are provided for example only. All information pertaining to these vehicles should be independently verified through the dealer.

 

[The Fed]

I was in automotive sales for a short time. Their job is to separate you from as much of your hard-earned money as possible, with no remorse. I lasted 4 weeks before I quit. I made the last sale at the last-minute, right before midnight (I put in 18-hours that day), that put us over the monthly quota. My manager got a huge bonus, I got nothing. The hours are long, and unless you're a superstar you'll never make manager. Even if you do make manager, you're only as good as your last month's deals. I was working part-time ot see if I wanted to retire early. Glad I kept my day job.

 

[PerceivedShift]

The advertised range is under perfect conditions, at the perfect speed, maybe with a tail wind? EVs don't carry as much raw energy with them and depend on their efficiency of using that energy, so temperature, wind, weight, cabin heating and cooling all have a much greater effect on range than gas cars. Most of the energy from gas is wasted as heat, compared to that loss most everything else, except forward motion, has little effect. Thats why EV trucks are terrible at towing anything for any reasonable amount of time. Shoot, I bet some people complaining about EV range weigh in at 300lbs. Tesla's test was probably done with a 110lb Asian driver, 590lbs less than two whales.

 

[vjmvjm]

The advertised range is under perfect conditions, at the perfect speed, maybe with a tail wind? EVs don't carry as much raw energy with them and depend on their efficiency of using that energy, so temperature, wind, weight, cabin heating and cooling all have a much greater effect on range than gas cars. Most of the energy from gas is wasted as heat, compared to that loss most everything else, except forward motion, has little effect. Thats why EV trucks are terrible at towing anything for any reasonable amount of time. Shoot, I bet some people complaining about EV range weigh in at 300lbs. Tesla's test was probably done with a 110lb Asian driver, 590lbs less than two whales.

The advertised range is based on the EPA test procedures, not something the manufacturer dreamed up. It's not at all "perfect conditions", the "official" European (WLTP) and Chinese (CLTC) estimates are much higher.

"As a rule of thumb, though, consider the EPA figure to be the most realistic with only a few percentage points difference from what one might see in real-world conditions. The WLTP figure to be about 22 percent higher than EPA, and the CLTC number about 35% higher than EPA. CLTC also appears to be a few percentage points higher than NEDC."

https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/t...ange testing:,The distance driven is recorded.

https://insideevs.com/features/3432...nflicting-ev-range-test-cycles-epa-wltp-nedc/

 

[Desslok]

From a Nissan dealer:

Disclaimer​

While every effort has been made to ensure display of accurate data, the vehicle listings within this web site may not reflect all accurate vehicle items. All Inventory listed is subject to prior sale. The vehicle photo displayed may be an example only. Please see the dealer for details. Vehicles may be in transit or currently in production. Some vehicles shown with optional equipment. See the actual vehicle for complete accuracy of features, options & pricing. Because of the numerous possible combinations of vehicle models, styles, colors and options, the vehicle pictures on this site may not match your vehicle exactly; however, it will match as closely as possible. Some vehicle images shown are stock photos and may not reflect your exact choice of vehicle, color, trim and specification. Not responsible for pricing or typographical errors.

Virtual Inventory, Available Configurations and In-Transit inventory contains vehicles that have not actually been manufactured. These vehicles show consumers sample vehicles that may be available. Pricing, Options, Color and other data pertaining to these vehicles are provided for example only. All information pertaining to these vehicles should be independently verified through the dealer.

 

[vjmvjm]

Same battery, but lower price with less range.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a44818034/tesla-model-s-x-standard-range-pricing/

 

[Thumper]

"As a rule of thumb, though, consider the EPA figure to be the most realistic with only a few percentage points difference from what one might see in real-world conditions. "

I have never found the EPA to be realistic, accurate, or even inteligent.

My 2023 A4 Allroad is EPA listed at 23 city and 30 highway. On my 28 mile commute (25% city, 75% highway) I get 33-34 average tracked over the week, and that is in Sport/Dynamic Manual mode (start/stop deactivated) and the highway is a roller coaster of hills not a flat stretch. Granted, they list the 'average' so there could be an argument that I somehow keep getting the above average cars, since I have had 11 cars in the last 12 years and not one of them has gotten the EPA average all have been better. The TTRS actually DOES give almost exactly the EPA average.......but only when I run it on E85, otherwise it does 10% better as well.

The advertised range is under perfect conditions, at the perfect speed, maybe with a tail wind? EVs don't carry as much raw energy with them and depend on their efficiency of using that energy, so temperature, wind, weight, cabin heating and cooling all have a much greater effect on range than gas cars.

Exactly, any range rating on EVs is basically pure guesswork and can change drastically. Outside temperature is crippling to range, super hot or super cold cuts range significantly. Carry a few suitcases and a child? Cut that range significantly. Every real world test objectively done to simulate replacing a gas/diesel vehicle EVs have failed spectacularly with numerous issues, headaches, and plain failures. Until they invent and perfect Tesla's (the genius, not the pretentious car company) over the air charging and integrate it into every interstate, state highway, and city it's a novelty for rich people who can afford to buy multiple $40k+ cars for every purpose and status symbols. Single moms, middle and lower class families that that can afford a single $10k or less car will continue to be destroyed by the misguided EV push the wealthy elite are forcing. $10 gas and rolling blackouts from overwhelmed electrical grids are a great future to look forward to, ah progress.

Same battery, but lower price with less range.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a44818034/tesla-model-s-x-standard-range-pricing/

$90k......"lower price".......

I hope you're kidding, the median income in this country is $70k.

 

[vjmvjm]

.... Single moms, middle and lower class families that that can afford a single $10k or less car will continue to be destroyed by the misguided EV push the wealthy elite are forcing. $10 gas and rolling blackouts from overwhelmed electrical grids are a great future to look forward to, ah progress.

You have a better way to deal with greenhouse gases and climate change? Or should we just look forward to cheap gas and death?

 

[mwoodski]

You have a better way to deal with greenhouse gases and climate change? Or should we just look forward to cheap gas and death?

hybrids.

esp if they're like the original chev volt which used the gas engine mainly to charge the battery.

 

[PerceivedShift]

You have a better way to deal with greenhouse gases and climate change? Or should we just look forward to cheap gas and death?

If you think switching to EVs will make any any difference in climate, especially just in the US, you’re just not well informed.

 

[vjmvjm]

If you think switching to EVs will make any any difference in climate, especially just in the US, you’re just not well informed.

Be careful that you don't fall off the edge of the flat earth.

 

[GNBRETT]

Uve been watching too much CNN videos bro.....
Its all smoke and mirrors created by investors and inventors or alternative fuels!
Mankind actually flourishes during warmer temps....... Did u think of that?

There was an Ice age remember? It was also extremely hot for several years during the Middle Ages so yea climate has been changing since the beginning of time! There is absolutely ZERO evidence that man made carbon which contributes to 2% of total carbon emissions effects anything on planet earth!

You have a better way to deal with greenhouse gases and climate change? Or should we just look forward to cheap gas and death?

 

[PerceivedShift]

Be careful that you don't fall off the edge of the flat earth.

Haha very funny, I know plenty about flat earth crap, in fact im in a heated debate with a flat earther acquaintance on facebook at the moment throwing facts and logic at him. The thing about flat earthers, is that they basically know nothing about the planet itself and the science behind it, and instead make outlandish doomer claims and when questioned refer to youtube channels which somehow "confirm" whatever point they are trying to make...because they never actually think through whatever point to begin with. Instead they just refer to hyperbolic youtubers and outsource their critical thinking to them as well. This is usually quite common among people who tend to fall into this flat earth conspiracy theory.

I wouldn't compare climate alarmists to flat earthers, but they do share a sort of outsourcing of critical thinking to "the experts" which have been shown to have manipulated data and write global warming papers to please the political class for that sweet sweet grant money. We have witnesses, whistleblowers, leaked emails and documents, and of course finding the inconsistencies and corruption in NOAA and NASA's own data. But non-alarmism does not make anyone money in the field, so we end up with thousands of junk peer reviewed papers by people in a circle-jerk because it pays the bills. Then the media and sometimes those same experts make outlandish claims and predictions which all turn out false.

100% of the outlandish predictions made by climate alarmists have been false, just like 100% of flat earthers claims are false:

Many more here

Nasa has been manipulating the raw temperature data, thankfully print media was a thing in 1999, cooling the past and inflating the recent years. This data is record, and there is no reason what-so-ever to tamper with this record data, but they did anyways. With the X & Y axis matched, there is no reason these two graphs should not be an exact match:

All in the name of climate change with a track record of 0% we are spending trillions to decrease CO2 with zero decreases to show for it:

You may notice that even during the lockdown of 2020 with a huge reduction in transportation, human CO2 output had zero effect on global CO2 level increases. You could almost say the reaction to covid19 also acted as a massive experiment (not saying this was the reason, but know they were watching) to see if shutting the world down would have any impact on global CO2 levels. You know for a fact that if there was any meaningful impact global warming alarmist would be screeming this from the rooftops until we were deaf in the ears. Instead...silence...can you blame them? What could be considered the largest climate change expiriment in history did not end in the result they were hoping for.

Now we have this huge push to EVs which will magically save us...even though data from 2020 clearly shows EVs will have zero impact on global CO2 levels.