The Official Gun Thread

[Bender1]

Yup. You can have my shit, you can't have my family, and I WILL have the jump on you.

 

[Muskie]

Depends on the state.

being from IL we cant defend ourselves without trying to cover our asses.

holding a choke point can be a great way to vet the job done in a defensive roll as long as everyone you need to protect is behind it.

Your methodology ONLY WORKS IF EVERYONE IS ACCOUNTED FOR. That doesn't always happen. Perhaps you have a daughter that was out with her friends. She MAY be home, she MAY NOT be home. If you assume she isn't and shoot through a wall and it kills her how would you feel? Home layouts vary and it isn't always practical or possible to get everyone accounted for. Even if you meet a threat head on they might be in a position where you can harm a family member.

For me in my complex I'm not going to try and shoot through a wall or any barrier. I have too much at risk to shoot through the wrong wall trying to stop someone who may or may not be advancing towards me. Approximately 3 weeks ago there was a guy trying to get into my neighbors and my back door (fire escape) I drew my gun and saw this occurring. I didnt think to shoot him through the door. Most states would prosecute you or at the very least take away your right to own guns. He wasn't going to get engaged as a target until he broke through that door. He didn't and ran like a girl when he saw I had my weapon in hand, but wanting to shoot through the door to stop a threat and risk it going into our neighbors apartment is totally stupid.

What happens if you shot at an intruder through a wall or other barrier and it over penetrates and kills your neighbor or a kid walking down the street? You are liable. You will most likely be going to jail and have civil suits against you by the family of the person you killed for being negligent.

 

[KurtP1]

dude. you're killing me. I mean this with zero sarcasm or intention of being a jerk. have you considered getting some training?

why cant you understand, despite how many times ive said it, im not talking about blind indescriminate fire? every time ive talked about this ive said 'track the threat' ive never said nor am I advocating 'hear noise, shoot in that direction' of course you need to account for people. you should be doing that anyway. you should have already gone over this contingency with your family.

if you live in a sheet rock apartment complex you have some environmental considerations to account for. have you? do you know what your first round hit percentage is with an elevated heart rate? have you ever tried? have you ever shot in a low light environment? do you realize that a hollow point 9mm will pack the cavity with drywall and travel about 4 rooms deep? do you use frangible instead? what are the walls between seperate apartments made out of? will the round you carry penetrate it? have you ever shot at a moving target? what is your plan to account for the occupants you want to protect? do you have one? whats the back up plan? do you have a choke point you can use? whats your plan to identify the threat? etc.

if you havent you need to go do all those things. if you live in a sheet rock apartment complex with no mode of bricking between the apartments you have some special considerations to address. remember what I said a few posts back? the operative word is fight. not gun. the gun is a tool. you are ghe fighter. if the reason you bought that gun was to defend a home you need a plan that works for the environment you are in. it doesnt sound like you have one.

in the scenario you mentioned you made the right call it sounds like. I wouldnt advocate differently if the dude was unarmed if you dont live in a castle doctrine state.

what I am saying is once you have positively identified a lethal threat, have the courage and the confidence to get in there and finish the fucking fight and win and protect the lives you are trying to. thats it.

 

[rawbdog]

when having your adrenaline running, it is difficult to aim with good accuracy, unless you have trained for it. also unless you are law enforcement, it can be difficult to train for those instances. good shit right here Kurt.

 

[Tactical Pancake]

Your weapon should be used in DEFENSE not an offense. My opinion.

Wise words. Some fucking idiot who shouldn't have been holding a loaded gun decided to rack a round and pull the trigger 2 rooms away from me. Bullet went through 2 walls and a door, ricocheted off of my floor where I was standing not 30 seconds before and lodged itself in the wall. Just to add. Weapons handling safety is paramount. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.

 

[Muskie]

dude. you're killing me. I mean this with zero sarcasm or intention of being a jerk. have you considered getting some training? I have received training and for your information everything I am saying is based off training for my area and state

why cant you understand, despite how many times ive said it, im not talking about blind indescriminate fire? When has shooting at a target that you can not see ever been condoned in training? every time ive talked about this ive said 'track the threat' ive never said nor am I advocating 'hear noise, shoot in that direction' of course you need to account for people. you should be doing that anyway. you should have already gone over this contingency with your family.

if you live in a sheet rock apartment complex you have some environmental considerations to account for. have you? We live in a studio apartment with a small hallway connected to the dininroom/kitchen. There is one area in this apartment I can engage and attacker without shooting into someone elses apartment or across the courtyard into their windows do you know what your first round hit percentage is with an elevated heart rate? have you ever tried? have you ever shot in a low light environment? I have shot in low light and in situations to "simulate"stress do you realize that a hollow point 9mm will pack the cavity with drywall and travel about 4 rooms deep? 4 rooms deep easily turns into outside the house into territory that is not accounted for in your "knowing the terrain/layout" do you use frangible instead? Frangible rounds have no benefit from breaking apart when hitting drywall what are the walls between seperate apartments made out of? will the round you carry penetrate it? The rounds I use will penetrate it. Any round I use will penetrate it. That is why I use common sense and wouldn't track a threat behind a wall and fire have you ever shot at a moving target? Yes. I have shot moving plates, while moving, and used to be an avid pheasant hunter. what is your plan to account for the occupants you want to protect? do you have one?Since I know the layout, and that there is only one place that I can safely engage my target I keep that in mind. They way my apartment is laid out I will always be between my girlfriend and a threat. She is the only person that is there and the one I intend on protecting. whats the back up plan? Having entrances on either side of the unit ideally I will get out first do you have a choke point you can use? whats your plan to identify the threat? etc. I have a point where I can engage a threar safetly, and have all occupants accounted for. If the threat made it to that point that would be the ONLY time I would engage them

if you havent you need to go do all those things. if you live in a sheet rock apartment complex with no mode of bricking between the apartments you have some special considerations to address. remember what I said a few posts back? the operative word is fight. not gun. the gun is a tool. you are ghe fighter. if the reason you bought that gun was to defend a home you need a plan that works for the environment you are in. it doesnt sound like you have one.

in the scenario you mentioned you made the right call it sounds like. I wouldnt advocate differently if the dude was unarmed if you dont live in a castle doctrine state.

what I am saying is once you have positively identified a lethal threat, have the courage and the confidence to get in there and finish the fucking fight and win and protect the lives you are trying to. thats it.

I tried to answer all your questions.

I'm not trying to get into a gun fight with a possible intruder. The point is to protect myself and my girlfriend. Shooting through a wall where you think the attacker is, even by tracking, is not as accurate as seeing him. Why announce to him you have a gun by shooting? Why give away your secure position? Why give him reason to fear for his life and "defend" himself?

If he comes at us I will do everything I can and use any means to stop him. A guy in a hallway behind a door might be a threat but you can not be 100% certain who is there. Perhaps the attacker left and it is a police officer, or a neighbor coming to see if you are OK.

 

[KurtP1]

its a vood idea to pay for a professional class 1x or 2x a year at a minimum. practice once a month. get some 5" dots and a heart rate monitor. do push ups and air squats until you hit mid/upper green zone and shoof a few. rinse and repeat.

thats an easy way for your average john q public to do it.

 

[KurtP1]

groovy dude. if you feel comfortable with what you vot for where you are at then thats what matters.

 

[PRND[S]]

Got two sets of Trijicon HD's with yellow fronts for my H&K USPs. Wait time when ordering direct on Trijicon's website is 8 weeks but my local shop found them at a distributor. They'll be a nice upgrade for my fading conventional Trijicons and I'm stoked to try them at the range.

 

[intoflatlines]

I think I'm buying a set of Trijicon HD with yellow front as well.

 

[SayaGTI]

Man...I want my sights installed already damnit!!!!!!

I haz an impatient.

 

[KurtP1]

Going to comp out my new M&P with a brass magwell, some apex trigger work, and +10 competition base plates.

[largeblackman]OHYEAH![/largeblackman]

 

[Soflogtimk6]

i just bought a Glock 23 .40 cal and i love it. looking into getting a .45 though. love glocks but would definitely consider a smith and wesson.

 

[KurtP1]

I just did some testing for some folks. If you want a modern polymer 45 I would say the XDM and the HK45 are hands down the best ones. XDM had great capacity and was over all very good. the HK45 was more accurate, I preferred the ergos/trigger a little more and is hammer fired.

Both were fantastic.

 

[intoflatlines]

Which one shot through cinder blocks and walls more effectively?

I kind of wish I got a compact M&P instead of full size. If/when CCW passes in IL it would be much easier to conceal. I did some tests with it where it would be holstered with an IWB holster, and it can be concealed fine, but there is printing if I move a certain way, depending on the shirt. In most states, if CCW is legal is it illegal if your gun mistakenly becomes exposed?