APRMK6GTi
Go Kart Champion
if you go by that logic,a passat will outhandle a zonda
8
Torsional Rigidity Strength - Car List
- Thread starter APRMK6GTi
- Start date
if you go by that logic,a passat will outhandle a zonda
APRMK6GTi
Go Kart Champion
i know what you mean, its absurd to think a chevy cruze is nearly double a C5, but i guess chassis technology and development has improved a lot since the C5. with the use of better and stronger materials, as well as trying to make cars safer to protect occupants from collisions will result in stiffer cars.
found a topic about the corvette chassis
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/f64/aluminum-chassis-weaker-than-expected-86383/
Last edited:
maxtdi
Go Kart Champion
That's C6 Z06 only aluminum is used for weight savings. C5 uses hydro-formed steel as does C6, they are actually quite similar. I'd expect them to be stiffer.
My point being all of those cars will out handle all the econo cars that are super high on that list. So I am not sure if "Torsional rigidy" is a criteria that provides any solid insight into the handling characteristics of a car.
APRMK6GTi
Go Kart Champion
yea i agree for sure. being FWD doesnt help lol, weight balance, higher center of gravity etc...
im no engineer and probably fall into VW marketing scheme..but VW has been using laser seam welding especially noticeable on the roofs of our cars. we don't have black strips like most cars covering the spot welding seams. our roof looks like its integrated into one smooth piece with the whole car. funny commericial
Although it seems often forgotten these days; there is a lot more to handling than just torsional rigidity and grip.
Take the old cars for instance:
The Alfa Romeo Duetto Spider, Ferrari 250, Lotus Elan, Datsun Z. Al lof those cars handled beautifully but had neither great chassis or great grip with their skinny little tires.
Weight Distrubution.
Suspension travel
Dampener dampening
Steering Ratio
Steering Feel
Length of wheelbase
Width of wheel track,
All of these have a much great effects on handling. Grip and rigidity are not the same thing as "handling."
Take the old cars for instance:
The Alfa Romeo Duetto Spider, Ferrari 250, Lotus Elan, Datsun Z. Al lof those cars handled beautifully but had neither great chassis or great grip with their skinny little tires.
Weight Distrubution.
Suspension travel
Dampener dampening
Steering Ratio
Steering Feel
Length of wheelbase
Width of wheel track,
All of these have a much great effects on handling. Grip and rigidity are not the same thing as "handling."
troyguitar
Go Kart Champion
Anyone want to trade a Passat for my Z06?
BAM its mitch
Go Kart Champion
And in reality that list is just scratching the surface of the discussion.
XGC75
Go Kart Champion
No it doesn't - like Dark Cloak noted. If your suspension geometry is not suited for handling the car won't be. HOWEVER, it's crucial for predictability and 'upsetability' mid-corner. If you have a stiff chassis, your suspension will do its job better. So mid-corner bumps will be absorbed by suspension linkages and not the frame. Twist in the frame will turn and torque other wheels and upsets the momentum of the car. Also, it's really important for torque steer mitigation like we've been saying.
Indeed. I have a whole book just on handling and suspension design. A lot of math and diffy qs. Definately would be a thread in and of itself. All reading it taught me was how little I actually know about suspension design.
Here are few more:
Static Alignment settings.
Dynamic Alignment
Axle design, (Type, axle length, weight, If it is a limited slip how quickly does it lock up and to what percentage?) Drivetrain layout
Sprung Mass
Unsprung Mass
Tire size related to steering ratio, feel, and percent assist.
Cg
PMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhEqOhFoT3M
There are so many more. Rigidity is important thoughas even the best suspension designs are only as good as their chassis and both can only be optimized with good rubber. Kind of the way that BBBKs are only as good as the pad.
Last edited:
RacingManiac
Drag Race Newbie
Who did the testing and under what setup did they test this? Is this a hub-to-hub measurement? With no context this means very little...
While in general stiffer is better, the stiffness is not free and often associated with added weight/cost. You only need to be as stiff as you need to be. If you have a car that puts less twist in the chassis based on the suspension setup, you don't need the same amount of stiffness as the one needs more. In general you are looking at the anti-roll torque distribution and wheel rate difference front to rear as the input into the warp mode of the chassis, and you are looking to be significantly stiff than that(1 order of magnitude?). A more balanced car will tend to have a more even distribution and thus you won't need as much stiffness since the suspension load isn't putting as much twist in the chassis and thus chassis does not need to be as stiff to be effective. And lighter car imparts less load and you don't need to be as stiff...
So number is a number...without context there is little to be drawn from it...
While in general stiffer is better, the stiffness is not free and often associated with added weight/cost. You only need to be as stiff as you need to be. If you have a car that puts less twist in the chassis based on the suspension setup, you don't need the same amount of stiffness as the one needs more. In general you are looking at the anti-roll torque distribution and wheel rate difference front to rear as the input into the warp mode of the chassis, and you are looking to be significantly stiff than that(1 order of magnitude?). A more balanced car will tend to have a more even distribution and thus you won't need as much stiffness since the suspension load isn't putting as much twist in the chassis and thus chassis does not need to be as stiff to be effective. And lighter car imparts less load and you don't need to be as stiff...
So number is a number...without context there is little to be drawn from it...
NNWGB6
Passed Driver's Ed
Do a youtube search along the lines of R36 drift, and see that the passat is der hammer!. Yes the vr6 is great, but replace with 2.0t and K04 = lighter, faster, damn thing weighs like 3331 lbs ; dont trip!
intoflatlines
Drag Race Newbie
As much as people like to tout rigidity, it isn't really the main factor in handling. By that logic, the MX5 should handle worse than almost all the cars on that list 
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
RacingManiac
Drag Race Newbie
As much as people like to tout rigidity, it isn't really the main factor in handling. By that logic, the MX5 should handle worse than almost all the cars on that list
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
That's not the right way to look at it. Like I said the stiffness matters to a point. Any stiffer that whats really needed for a car is just extra cost and weight.