Wall Street Protest

[djax1]

it sucks to hear but THAT'S LIFE! as soon as you turn 18 you're the governments bitch. you either go to school and educate yourself enough to get into a business job working for some faceless corporation with dreams of "climbing the corporate ladder" helping the rich get richer in what's essentially just some of the most elaborate pyramid schemes in the world, or you can become a useful citizen like a policeman or a doctor, or you can become lazy. not care and wait for change to just happen magically. someone who would rather dream of the perfect life they feel they're entitled to without working for it. they end up living paycheck to paycheck for the rest of their lives while being the exact sheep that the corporations are sucking money from.


:smoking:

i understand what you're trying to say. we have a libertarian way of doing things, and our "system" promotes competition and consumerism. key word is "self-interest" (as you point out regarding corporations).

but self-interest can produce whatever outcome it wants, whether it's for the betterment of one person, or for many. that's what the occupy wallstreet "movement" is all about: they want to maximize the amount of good and fairness for the most amount of people. what they're doing is a good start, but it isn't enough to change how policy makers think or what legislators are doing at the capital.

case in point: the AIDS/HIV epidemic, most salient in San Francisco. The gay community, along with others who were affected (people receiving infected blood) or those stereotyped and ill-conceived (haitians were thought to carry the disease incorrectly) created a voice and translated it into something with more political capacity. They organized themselves and went to vote for politicians who actually gave a damn about what they were going through. They created networks across the country and formally spread the word about having rights and a dire need to address the issue. Spokespersons spoke to the media and to politicians; whenever there were crusades to downplay the epidemic, the group roared back. It went on the national docket. There's now funding for states for research and treatment. Health education discusses the perils of the disease and how it occurs. Although people are still suffering, it wasn't as bad as before- people used to literally drop dead left and right after a couple months from being diagnosed. And of course, there is now an active voice for the gay community. Whether you agree or disagree with them, what they did was tremendous for their own rights.

I say all of this because although Congress has a lot of power and lobbyists and interest groups convolute pretty much everything, that doesn't mean we have no power in how the government runs things. We're "all-in" so to speak on so many policies, yet we don't even know. That's why at the very least, Occupy Wallstreet may spark someone's interest in wanting to know "why"- why are people complaining? what are they complaining about? what have we done as a country to address these problems? Have we even done anything about the issues recently? Will this affect me and my family? How does a bill go through the system and get accepted/rejected? What can i do about it?

 

[ChiGuyGolf2.5]

There are a few problems with the Occupy Wall Street Movement.

Let me just say that the movement itself, is just. I too am upset that the financial institutions were allowed to spend money irresponsibly, create and sell off subprime mortagages to private buyers in attempt to lend out more un-worthy loans. Then, once the bubble burst, they were bailed out and continued to spend that money irresponsibly on bonuses for the exact same people that made millions off the subprime loans to begin with.

I think that corporate greed has escalated to a point that something needs to be done. I also believe that Occupy Wall Street is a start, but they are not doing it right. For one, nobody should be sleeping on the sidewalks over night. I think they should be sleeping at home and making a 9 to 5 job out of protesting. Sleeping and camping out downtown makes them seem homeless and unmotivated, not saying its true, but that is the image it generates.

Also, they need to make sure the protests are civil, that no violence erupts. It has been said that corporations have started planting scabs to escalate the protest into violent behavior so the public would view the protestors as wrong and dangerous, instead of the police.

If we all really wanted to take down corporations and prevent corruption, we would live modest means, and not support any company that is viewed as wrong. Lets not forget where we all came from, our great grandfathers all worked in sweat shops with almost no human rights. They were working penny wages at 18 hour days. We have come a long way in this country, and working is a way of life. In my opinion, we take all that we have for granted. Yes, it is incredibly unfair that the 1% has as much as they do when people are struggling as much as they are, but again, that is life. It ALWAYS has been that way.

 

[DJEuphoria]

^ exactly.

 

[djax1]

There are a few problems with the Occupy Wall Street Movement.

Let me just say that the movement itself, is just. I too am upset that the financial institutions were allowed to spend money irresponsibly, create and sell off subprime mortagages to private buyers in attempt to lend out more un-worthy loans. Then, once the bubble burst, they were bailed out and continued to spend that money irresponsibly on bonuses for the exact same people that made millions off the subprime loans to begin with.

I think that corporate greed has escalated to a point that something needs to be done. I also believe that Occupy Wall Street is a start, but they are not doing it right. For one, nobody should be sleeping on the sidewalks over night. I think they should be sleeping at home and making a 9 to 5 job out of protesting. Sleeping and camping out downtown makes them seem homeless and unmotivated, not saying its true, but that is the image it generates.

Also, they need to make sure the protests are civil, that no violence erupts. It has been said that corporations have started planting scabs to escalate the protest into violent behavior so the public would view the protestors as wrong and dangerous, instead of the police.

If we all really wanted to take down corporations and prevent corruption, we would live modest means, and not support any company that is viewed as wrong. Lets not forget where we all came from, our great grandfathers all worked in sweat shops with almost no human rights. They were working penny wages at 18 hour days. We have come a long way in this country, and working is a way of life. In my opinion, we take all that we have for granted. Yes, it is incredibly unfair that the 1% has as much as they do when people are struggling as much as they are, but again, that is life. It ALWAYS has been that way.

I agree with most of what you say. Especially with organizing a political and active voice for a cause. But by saying "that is life" and stopping there, we aren't doing any favors for those who are living on the margins in a country that has so much wealth and opportunity.

We have come a long way, you're right, but there is still a long, long way to go. Working is different now than it was even a couple decades ago. We have become more specialized and at the same time, downsized. Living in America is like living in a paradox- we have virtually everything but many people don't have anything.

 

[ChiGuyGolf2.5]

I agree with most of what you say. Especially with organizing a political and active voice for a cause. But by saying "that is life" and stopping there, we aren't doing any favors for those who are living on the margins in a country that has so much wealth and opportunity.

We have come a long way, you're right, but there is still a long, long way to go. Working is different now than it was even a couple decades ago. We have become more specialized and at the same time, downsized. Living in America is like living in a paradox- we have virtually everything but many people don't have anything.

I agree totally with you as well. I didnt mean we should just stop there! Of course, a solution is easier said then done. I was only saying that its always been that way, nothing has changed. But, yes it is quite the paradox we are living in. Even within our own country, even worse outside of our own country. Look at some of the dictatorships that exist, people have ALL of the wealth while kids are literally starving and dieing. At least I dont feel like that happens in America.

 

[Gunkata]

I think that corporate greed has escalated to a point that something needs to be done. I also believe that Occupy Wall Street is a start, but they are not doing it right. For one, nobody should be sleeping on the sidewalks over night. I think they should be sleeping at home and making a 9 to 5 job out of protesting. Sleeping and camping out downtown makes them seem homeless and unmotivated, not saying its true, but that is the image it generates.

Also, they need to make sure the protests are civil, that no violence erupts. It has been said that corporations have started planting scabs to escalate the protest into violent behavior so the public would view the protestors as wrong and dangerous, instead of the police.

Agreed with most of what you said, except im not sure how going to work shows any kind of protest, lol.... its exactly the opposite, and its exactly what they want you to do. The only reason real change doesn't happen in this country (compared to others in the middle east as of late), is because a lot of people still do have jobs and bills, etc, and can't afford to go and protest - that's how we are tied down, effectively making us that "wage slave" that we are.

The majority of the protests are peaceful, and in a public area, even the courts are saying some places will allow people to be there almost consistently, thats part of protesting. This country was started on protesting - The Tea Party, all that shit, and to see people now call these people un-American or whatever, is the most fucked up thing ever. That's what started this whole place and all the freedoms we have in it, including the one in which you can protest.

It's hard to do anything "right", when everything else has failed. Our politicians on both sides have failed, the congress, the controls in place, etc - its all failing, so I applaud people for at least trying to do something to put some emphasis on this. It's not capitalism that fucks people over, its greed. And greed runs rampant when it controls the government that's supposed to be keeping things in check.

 

[DJEuphoria]

NYC is bringing the iron hammer down on these guys again today.

kicked all the protestors out at like 3am last night so they could clean the park and they set a temporary restraining order which was later declined.

they're now letting protestors in again with stricter rules. they're searching everyone that walks in and they aren't letting people sleep there anymore.

people started chaining themselves to trees to stay in.

 

[DJEuphoria]

honestly, i hope they accomplish something. Obama is currently thinking of a way to work on the Student Loan situation in the country so i guess that's a small step.

these guys have guts. they're kind of like martyrs in the sense that most of them are going to end up jobless and in jail for this.

 

[Gunkata]

honestly, i hope they accomplish something. Obama is currently thinking of a way to work on the Student Loan situation in the country so i guess that's a small step.

these guys have guts. they're kind of like martyrs in the sense that most of them are going to end up jobless and in jail for this.

true, or like the middle east, many of these people may not have jobs, or are retired, or who knows... doesn't matter, they have the balls to do something.

 

[dubbinit2]

This is the fork in the road for many different things in the world..
I dont mean to sound like a weirdo..But i have 2 kids. I worry about their future for sure.

 

[DJEuphoria]

no most of these protestors do (or did) have jobs. most of them are between the ages of 18 and 30.

a lot of them are students or graduates that couldn't find work and a lot of them are unionized workers, war veterans, or just "dirty hippies and pissed off puerto ricans" (-Eric Cartman)

 

[dubbinit2]

yes...yes ....exact.

i understand what you're trying to say. we have a libertarian way of doing things, and our "system" promotes competition and consumerism. key word is "self-interest" (as you point out regarding corporations).

but self-interest can produce whatever outcome it wants, whether it's for the betterment of one person, or for many. that's what the occupy wallstreet "movement" is all about: they want to maximize the amount of good and fairness for the most amount of people. what they're doing is a good start, but it isn't enough to change how policy makers think or what legislators are doing at the capital.

case in point: the AIDS/HIV epidemic, most salient in San Francisco. The gay community, along with others who were affected (people receiving infected blood) or those stereotyped and ill-conceived (haitians were thought to carry the disease incorrectly) created a voice and translated it into something with more political capacity. They organized themselves and went to vote for politicians who actually gave a damn about what they were going through. They created networks across the country and formally spread the word about having rights and a dire need to address the issue. Spokespersons spoke to the media and to politicians; whenever there were crusades to downplay the epidemic, the group roared back. It went on the national docket. There's now funding for states for research and treatment. Health education discusses the perils of the disease and how it occurs. Although people are still suffering, it wasn't as bad as before- people used to literally drop dead left and right after a couple months from being diagnosed. And of course, there is now an active voice for the gay community. Whether you agree or disagree with them, what they did was tremendous for their own rights.

I say all of this because although Congress has a lot of power and lobbyists and interest groups convolute pretty much everything, that doesn't mean we have no power in how the government runs things. We're "all-in" so to speak on so many policies, yet we don't even know. That's why at the very least, Occupy Wallstreet may spark someone's interest in wanting to know "why"- why are people complaining? what are they complaining about? what have we done as a country to address these problems? Have we even done anything about the issues recently? Will this affect me and my family? How does a bill go through the system and get accepted/rejected? What can i do about it?

You must be apart of the system to change it.

 

[Gunkata]

no most of these protestors do (or did) have jobs. most of them are between the ages of 18 and 30.

a lot of them are students or graduates that couldn't find work and a lot of them are unionized workers, war veterans, or just "dirty hippies and pissed off puerto ricans" (-Eric Cartman)

^^ YES, thats what happened in the middle east. Most protestors were out of work college graduates, so what are you saying "no" to?

 

[DJEuphoria]

my mistake i misread your posts. i saw "people with no jobs and retirees"

these guys all generally have jobs. just nothing they can make an honest living off of or pay back their student loans.

 

[DJEuphoria]

then again, most of them are probably liberal arts or english majors :lol: