Who gets the FT-86, FRS and BRZ?

[2.0t_convert]

Different cars for different markets.

The FT-86 will be sold in ROW meaning global markets where Scion doesn't exist. Here in North American we will get the FR-S since we have the Scion brand. Subaru was a development partner and can sell the BRZ in any market chosen. Subaru has created a difference with the suspension tuning per reviews and obviously offered a higher contend interior than the FR-S with auto climate, HIDs, leather, etc...

I'm a HID snob so I would take the FR=S with a HID conversion.

 

[Chuck2001]

I'd get the Subaru. It was engineered by Subaru, with some technologies from Toyota.

Subaru is not a direct injection leader....Toyota helped with the DI tech into the Subaru boxer engine. In fact, I don't think Toyota is a big developer in the DI. They invest in hybrid technologies but forget to improve their engines and transmissions.

 

[2.0t_convert]

I
Subaru is not a direct injection leader....Toyota helped with the DI tech into the Subaru boxer engine. In fact, I don't think Toyota is a big developer in the DI. They invest in hybrid technologies but forget to improve their engines and transmissions.

I welcome being corrected but Toyota has delved in DI engines for awhile - Toyota brought port injection into the Lexus LS which had a side benefit of preventing carbon buildup. This same technology is being copied at present.

I think Toyota like Honda has been slow to bring DI due to the reputation of the brand being at stake when other brands that dove headfirst into the technology had some kinks - VW/Audi....

 

[ImmI]

OP where have you been?!

FYI to those saying FT-86. FT-86 was just the name of the concept cars, in Japan and Australia it will be called the Toyota 86, in Europe it will be called the GT-86.

 

[Chuck2001]

I welcome being corrected but Toyota has delved in DI engines for awhile - Toyota brought port injection into the Lexus LS which had a side benefit of preventing carbon buildup. This same technology is being copied at present.

I think Toyota like Honda has been slow to bring DI due to the reputation of the brand being at stake when other brands that dove headfirst into the technology had some kinks - VW/Audi....

I agree they have the technology, but it seems currently that Toyota is not investing in gaz technology but rather in hybrid only.

From a sale volume perspective, gas engine cars are still the vast majority of the sales. But yet, the new Corolla has nothing new, the new Camry is the same as before, and so on.
Let's take the sedan market as example, Camrys and Accords are selling less and less...but Sonata and Optima (same car) have good sell numbers. They have better technology (DI 4 cylinders, Turbo 4 instead of old V6).

Anyway, my point is, get the BRZ. This car is a Subaru first (read the articles of the Top Gear magazine of February 2012), so why not get the real deal. The exhaust note is better on the Subie too ! :thumbsup:

 

[pressure drop]

I wanna see objective comparisons between this and the v6 mustang and the 4cyl Genesis coupe. Both of which are similar price and have far more power. The only advantage this has is the weight.

As excited as I was for the FRS/BRZ at first, I just dont think its competitive at this price. If they add a turbo, it could be a game changer.

 

[Chuck2001]

The BRZ is quite small and light... I would not compare it to a Mustang of Genesis.

It's closer to a Miata, but more powerful...

 

[nik]

More painful twin cars - notice all GM lol
cavalier/sunbird/ (and later sunfire)
Cobalt/ G5-Pursuit (canada only I think)
Blazer/Jimmy/Bravada
Uplander/Montana SV6/ whatever that buick one was called

 

[Chuck2001]

More painful twin cars - notice all GM lol
Uplander/Montana SV6/ whatever that buick one was called

Lol the Terraza !

Father of a friend had one...I was wondering who'd buy one. A leather, fully equipped Montana.

 

[2.0t_convert]

I agree they have the technology, but it seems currently that Toyota is not investing in gaz technology but rather in hybrid only.

From a sale volume perspective, gas engine cars are still the vast majority of the sales. But yet, the new Corolla has nothing new, the new Camry is the same as before, and so on.
Let's take the sedan market as example, Camrys and Accords are selling less and less...but Sonata and Optima (same car) have good sell numbers. They have better technology (DI 4 cylinders, Turbo 4 instead of old V6).

Anyway, my point is, get the BRZ. This car is a Subaru first (read the articles of the Top Gear magazine of February 2012), so why not get the real deal. The exhaust note is better on the Subie too ! :thumbsup:

The articles on the car being a Subaru engineered vehicle were put down by both Toyota and Subaru as false. It was a joint effort if you count the whole spectrum of development and not just the chassis. Research was shared and each company ending up with a product to fine tune.

I find TTAC a good source for honest car news: TTAC FT-86

One of the most important parts of the article:

“No DSG or anything of that kind,” says Tada, and is proud. Sure, the automatic has a computer, but the shift points cannot be changed – at least not at the flip of a switch in the dashboard. Computers want to keep you on the straight and narrow, but some FT-86 owners want that car to go sideways. If you need nannies, go down to the children’s hospital.

“From the beginning, the concept was to put the driver back in the driver’s seat, and to eliminate computers as much as possible today. Powerful sports cars use a lot of computer technology so that anyone can drive and handle them. We decided not to go down that road.”

I find this to be the source of debate - The FT/BRZ/FRS was built to be a simple drivers car not a complex machine with a complex transmission to shift for a driver shaving off precious fractions of seconds to win a magazine racing test.

Complexity =/= better car. It all comes down to what each buyer wants most out of a car. For the would be owners of a BRZ or FR-S that is not going to be 3 beep racing in a BRZ vs ____ forum.

 

[Chuck2001]

The articles on the car being a Subaru engineered vehicle were put down by both Toyota and Subaru as false. It was a joint effort if you count the whole spectrum of development and not just the chassis. Research was shared and each company ending up with a product to fine tune.

Yeah right !

Toyota increased its stake in Fuji Heavy Industries at 16.7% in 2008...purely random investment strategy I guess :laugh:

Toyota $$$ ------> Subaru development dep.

We are on 21st century, why create something new while you can deal with partners that has already something

Edit: I found another article online : http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/262247/

I'll quote : "Four years ago, Toyota had the will, the vision and the investment. But nowhere to build it and no capacity to develop it beforehand. Subaru had the production and engineering facilities, many of the mechanical building blocks you’d need for a great sporting rear-driver and the desire for the brand development that such a car could achieve. But without greater potential sales volume, it could never have made the sums work.
Then in 2007, Katsuaki Watanabe, ex-president of Toyota secretly met with Ikuo Mori, president of Subaru parent Fuji Heavy Industries. In 2008, as Toyota announced an increase in its minority stake in FHI, the Toyobaru plan went public. Toyota would design the car, and put up the lion’s share of the finances; Subaru would engineer and develop it, and produce it at its plant in Gunma. They would develop their own marketing strategies, but Toyota’s bigger cash pot would deliver them the majority of production."

 

[2.0t_convert]

I generally trust the lead engineer involved in a project more than 4 year old internet reports....

That aside it will all be a moot point within 5-10 years I bet since Subaru will be under Toyota management at that point. Consolidation is the future in a world where the economies of scale will continue to rise. Brands like Subaru and Mazda will need partners or will be gobbled up.

So even if I'm wrong now I will be right soon enough :thumbsup:

 

[Gunkata]

Subaru's been one of the most successful companies the last 5 years or so, can you expand more on the thoughts of Toyota acquiring them, if thats what you're saying? Subaru outsold (by percentage sales increase, not total volume) every brand in 2008, iirc.

 

[inc55]

I guess I knew different companies made similar cars but these two looked the same.

 

[Chuck2001]

I generally trust the lead engineer involved in a project more than 4 year old internet reports....

Please open source when you read a quote. This is a review of the BRZ...

That aside it will all be a moot point within 5-10 years I bet since Subaru will be under Toyota management at that point. Consolidation is the future in a world where the economies of scale will continue to rise. Brands like Subaru and Mazda will need partners or will be gobbled up.

Exactly what I'm telling you. Toyota needed a sporty car, let's make Subaru create one.

So even if I'm wrong now I will be right soon enough :thumbsup:

It's not a question of being right or wrong, the point is that the car is made by Subaru engineers (fact).

If I come back to my first comment, I was just telling an opinion (opinion) that I would take the BRZ over a FR-S because I prefer driving the car labeled by the company that did it...that's it. You can tell us your opinion on this subject, you're welcome.

Each one of us can choose which one he prefers, and it's almost the same car ! Let's remind us the 3 models come out of the same plant.In the contract, Toyota gets the majority of the cars though. The Subaru one will be much more limited. We won't see much of them. The FR-S will be much more common.