GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

american cars vs euro cars

kirk180

kirk180

Go Kart Champion
Technic said:
After spending the last month virtually disassembling my GTI interior completely to install an aftermarket audio system and really looking at the engineering details of manufacture it's in my opinion that the fact that VW takes twice the man-hours to build an MKV compared to its competitors is because of over-engineering for over-engineering sake than any "perks". In other words, bad engineering...

This is no Phaeton, much less a Rolls Royce to take twice the man-hours to build one car compared to others in this entry level segment. That's idiotic...

The best example: it takes around 15 pieces of trim and some 30+ torx screws to replace the cup holders for the Euro version with the sliding door. In my M3 it takes... nothing at all. You pull the cupholders out and clip the Euro sliding door there... done.

Another example of over-engineering to the point of lunacy: door panels snap on clips system is made out of 4 pieces. The clip itself is made of three parts and the receiver in the door panel is a separate part plastic soldered into its base. In the BMW: one piece, the clip. The receiver in the door panel is molded into the door panel.

If BMW can reduce and simplify these subassemblies and still charge almost twice the price of a GTI for an average 3 Series, and still the impression of quality and luxury is more than the VW, then VW really messed up the engineering design of this car.

This car has too many single parts, too many bolts, to many intricate subassemblies. That's not something that speak quality because the more parts an assembly has the more prone to rattles/defects can and will have. And of course, the more expensive is to manufacture and produced.

For me that's VW problem right now with the MKV and why it is costing them money to sell each one of them.

Ah, why I chose European over American cars? They drive better and look better inside and out, that's what I'm looking for. The Japanese are closer than the Americans in getting that feel of the road and interior ergonomics that the Eupeans have almost forever. Which it is ironic because I've driven Mazdas and they drive much better than the Ford versions, and the Mazda interiors are better built and look better than the Ford's... and Ford is part owner of Mazda.

I think that American cars were made for a particular customer, a customer that did not expect much out of a car other than regular maintenance and the occasional malfunction. The problem started when everybody else was offering excitement, luxury, styling plus lower price and better reliability. The Americans are coming back strong now after some really black holes for years, but they still have some road to go. Unfortunately, they lost me as a potential customer long time ago...
Click to expand...

Very well said. I agreed ealier and just didn't go into depth of detail like you...the GTI is very overly engineered. Which equaled poor results for VW's profit margin. They're aware of this and trying to work on it though. Like I was saying, they've already made change from 06 to 07 model. More are needed though.

Thanks for your input. I's starting to think that thomaschh was the only one who knew what he was talking about here...:laugh:
 
kirk180

kirk180

Go Kart Champion
thomaschh said:
It was only when Euro companies began controlling American ones that they started turning out decent cars again. Case in point: Chrysler. You've got a weird woody for Saturn too. THEY'RE MADE OUT OF PLASTIC. Need I say much more?

Carry on.
Click to expand...

So you agree then that America is starting to produce a better quality car? I thought that's what I was saying. I thought that's what mag reviews were starting to say too. I'm glad were all on the same page then. As far as Saturn goes...I'll probably never own one. So your comment about me getting a Woody? Well that's just you being an ass. If you've ready anything about the car I mentioned then you've seen that it's getting great reviews. Perhaps you should stop looking at the maker of the car and pay a little more attention to the model. Because just as you seem a little surprised, so were the people who first test drove the car. I've read nothing but good things about it. And yes they were all just as surprised as you and I. Read the reviews and get a few mag subscriptions so you can keep up with what's going on. And as far as my need for reading dictionaries and educating myself goes...don't be an ass. I have an education that I'd guess is at least on an equal plane as yours. And I bet it's a lot more broad spectrum too....TOOL:thumbdown:

Just googled the words "thomaschh and pics" and got this.
 

Attachments

  • E-thug.jpg
    E-thug.jpg
    21.8 KB · Views: 314
alf

alf

Modwhoreator
iono, but GMC and chevrolet are starting to come up in engineering and quality. so yeaaa.
 
kirk180

kirk180

Go Kart Champion
alf said:
iono, but GMC and chevrolet are starting to come up in engineering and quality. so yeaaa.
Click to expand...

Most car companies are. Thanks for noticing.:respekt: Wait...you were just considering a Pontiac or something a little while back weren't you? Or am I getting you confused. Then again, you've thought about 5 cars or so that I know of since we've been talking...lol...me too.
 
ShadowGLI

ShadowGLI

Sandy Vagina Rinser Outer
kirk180 said:
So you agree then that America is starting to produce a better quality car? I thought that's what I was saying. I thought that's what mag reviews were starting to say too. I'm glad were all on the same page then. As far as Saturn goes...I'll probably never own one. So your comment about me getting a Woody? Well that's just you being an ass. If you've ready anything about the car I mentioned then you've seen that it's getting great reviews. Perhaps you should stop looking at the maker of the car and pay a little more attention to the model. Because just as you seem a little surprised, so were the people who first test drove the car. I've read nothing but good things about it. And yes they were all just as surprised as you and I. Read the reviews and get a few mag subscriptions so you can keep up with what's going on. And as far as my need for reading dictionaries and educating myself goes...don't be an ass. I have an education that I'd guess is at least on an equal plane as yours. And I bet it's a lot more broad spectrum too....TOOL:thumbdown:

Just googled the words "thomaschh and pics" and got this.
Click to expand...

I as well will attest that the Sky is BA, I'm not afraid to admit it.. its a far cry from an ION or an LS/SL.

Otherwise kinda funny :laugh:

And as far as someones comment that American Cars will NEVER recover.. Take a look at Nissan Motor Corp. They were about to turn inside out when some revised models and clever marketing put them back into a high level standing.

CNN.com said:
in 1999, Nissan was $17 billion in debt and you turned it around to be the most profitable automotive company in the world in terms of operating margins
Click to expand...

See the article here
 
thomaschh

thomaschh

Banned
kirk180 said:
So you agree then that America is starting to produce a better quality car? I thought that's what I was saying. I thought that's what mag reviews were starting to say too. I'm glad were all on the same page then. As far as Saturn goes...I'll probably never own one. So your comment about me getting a Woody? Well that's just you being an ass. If you've ready anything about the car I mentioned then you've seen that it's getting great reviews. Perhaps you should stop looking at the maker of the car and pay a little more attention to the model. Because just as you seem a little surprised, so were the people who first test drove the car. I've read nothing but good things about it. And yes they were all just as surprised as you and I. Read the reviews and get a few mag subscriptions so you can keep up with what's going on. And as far as my need for reading dictionaries and educating myself goes...don't be an ass. I have an education that I'd guess is at least on an equal plane as yours. And I bet it's a lot more broad spectrum too....TOOL:thumbdown:

Just googled the words "thomaschh and pics" and got this.
Click to expand...

Uh oh, somebody got a little defensive...

Yeah, that's totally me. Don't f* wit me - I'm pimp. :bellyroll:

Go ahead - google me. You'll find plenty. Or, since you're soooo computer literate, all you have to do is click on my name over on the left side here and find a link right to my website! Cool, huh?! Lol.

Oh, and by the way, I never said the Sky wasn't a decent car (for Saturn). What I said is that it is made out of PLASTIC. Saturns are crap cars, which is why they're like what, near the bottom of all auto manufacturers sales wise? And please don't assume that I know nothing about the automotive industry. I've probably been working on cars longer than your gay frosted tip hair self has had a driver's license. Me tool? Lol. Okay dude. :thumbsup: You're now assuming you know anything about my education too? Then tell me - what school did you go to, and what was your major? And send me a link to anywhere on the web that proves it? Just remember big guy, you started it. :biggrin:

And since you're so gung-ho about this, please quote where I said US manufacturers aren't getting better? I'll give you $10. Man, for you that's like an hour's worth of work right? Cha-ching!
 
Last edited:
kirk180

kirk180

Go Kart Champion
thomaschh said:
Uh oh, somebody got a little defensive...

Yeah, that's totally me. Don't f* wit me - I'm pimp. :bellyroll:

Go ahead - google me. My name is Tom Hession-Herzog. You'll find plenty. Or, since you're soooo computer literate, all you have to do is click on my name over on the left side here and find a link right to my website! Cool, huh?! Lol.

Oh, and by the way, I never said the Sky wasn't a decent car (for Saturn). What I said is that it is made out of PLASTIC. Saturns are crap cars, which is why they're like what, near the bottom of all auto manufacturers sales wise? And please don't assume that I know nothing about the automotive industry. I've probably been working on cars longer than your gay frosted tip hair self has had a driver's license. Me tool? Lol. Okay dude. :thumbsup: You're now assuming you know anything about my education too? Then tell me - what school did you go to, and what was your major? And send me a link to anywhere on the web that proves it? Just remember big guy, you started it. :biggrin:

And since you're so gung-ho about this, please quote where I said US manufacturers aren't getting better? I'll give you $10. Man, for you that's like an hour's worth of work right? Cha-ching!
Click to expand...

Dude, I never said I wanted to sit here and compare educations with you and go back and forth about such petty things. I's simply letting you know that I'm not lacking in that area. And there's plenty of people here who already know that. So to sit here and go back and forth with you about educations...well I'd find that to be a tad embarrassing. My response was merely a reply to you telling a complete stranger to look in a dictionary for etc, etc, blah, blah. But to get in a pissing contest about who goes where, I'm afraid you've just set off the alarm with that idea...sorry:redface:
 
Last edited:
thomaschh

thomaschh

Banned
kirk180 said:
Dude, I never said I wanted to sit here and compare educations with you and go back and forth about such petty things. I's simply letting you know that I'm not lacking in that area. And there's plenty of people here who already know that. So to sit here and go back and forth with you about educations...well I'd find that to be a tad embarrassing. My response was merely a reply to you telling a complete stranger to look in a dictionary for etc, etc, blah, blah. But to get in a pissing contest about who goes where, I'm afraid you've just set off the alarm with that idea...sorry:redface:
Click to expand...

Huh, I'm pretty sure you brought it up. Weird...maybe it's just that you're so much smarter than me you readz the internetz on a different levelz...:thumbsup:

Or maybe I just have a biased opinion.

I just started reading some of your other posts and you really fashion yourself as the goody goody make peace not war pseudo-moderator on here don't you? It's kinda funny.
 
ShadowGLI

ShadowGLI

Sandy Vagina Rinser Outer
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top