F23T vs TTE420

[RichBGTI]

If 350whp is the magic number for you you could go K04 & Meth. Loads of guys are selling slightly used K04s for over 50% off retail & you get a half dozen tuners to chose from. Not to mention OEM+ fitment & reliability.

*puts flame suit on*

350whp is a shitload of power for these cars. Makes 1st & 2nd difficult to use without r-comps and full mounts. I made 332whp on 93 (that was prior to the fluidampr pulley install which should put me over 340); and I do NOT use water meth.

Currently I run my car on the 91 file. Car doesn't have to run any crazy timing advance and with the pulley now installed I make somewhere between 315-325 whp. I think its a more realistic number for these cars. On warmer days after the tires heat up I can grip in first @ ~10mph and have zero issues in second. Even in the cold weather I can grip in 2nd. This was not the case on a 93 file

Its all about what you want. If it is power the f23 has higher potential than your run of the mill k04... Rotary and Moarpower can testify to that. Doug offers excellent customer service as well. To me it and K04 are better options than TTE420 because the R&D is all there for you.

BT is a big option here too. There are two great threads on this forum with LOADS of info if you REALLY want to make big power.

My recommendation is that if you know anyone with f23, k04 or tte on their GTI drive it first. See if you really like that kind of power. I know that sounds like a weird but Ive seen so many people on this forum upgrade their turbo on stock suspension, wheels, tires, brakes and FMIC and lose interest in their car because it isn't as "drivable."

Either way keep us updated and good luck!|

TL;DR: f23 or K04 & Meth for 350whp; TTE lacks R&D; Don't forget about BT kits and don't neglect your drivetrain/suspension/brakes/tires

Thanks. Good info

In terms of progress so far I've got 034 mounts to go on over Christmas as well as TTRS front brakes. Will look to upgrade rears too to keep them balanced. Looking at suspension options too so that the car is ready for the extra power.

With the cost of the hybrids being not much more than a stock K04 I think it's definitely the route I will take, but just the big decision on which one... And it is quite a big decision. Also don't want to go down the WMI route (at the moment at least!)

My previous car was BT so I'm fairly aware of the challenges and frustrations, so really want to get it right first time without having to swap out too many parts further on down the line... Kind of inevitable though at some point!

Thanks


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[mikejsmith1985]

I never considered the TTE, I did consider the gt28, k04, and F23.
IMO the gt28 doesn't produce enough power to justify the cost over the other 2 options. The k04 proved to be the same in my opinion. More expensive than the F23 and less power, and less support.

I've had my F23 for about 800miles and its great! My only complaint is all season tires!

 

[RichBGTI]

I never considered the TTE, I did consider the gt28, k04, and F23.
IMO the gt28 doesn't produce enough power to justify the cost over the other 2 options. The k04 proved to be the same in my opinion. More expensive than the F23 and less power, and less support.

I've had my F23 for about 800miles and its great! My only complaint is all season tires!

Yeah GT28 too small. Would need to be GTX30 i think to be worthwhile.

I wonder how efficient both F23T and TTE420 are @ 400-420chp. I've got the TTE420 compressor map (for older variant, not current one) and looks like around 72% @ 1.8bar... something like that.

No map reading pro but looks like 420bhp would be around the limit (before you turn it into a big old hot air pump!).

So i wonder how that compares to F23T. No compressor maps i know but guess thats where real world figures from the dyne come in, and that looks a little like with no WMI or extra injectors they both will rely about the same limit at the same time. Then i just comes down to what the shape of the torque curves look like (and figures of course).

Bit more research to go but getting somewhere.

Thanks for all the info so far guys.

 

[RichBGTI]

Tte420 map.

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[doug@frankenturbo]

That compressor map is a great illustration of what I said before. Whatever source for that map, and whatever manufacturer they use for their comp wheel, it's ludicrously big for application in a small turbo like a K04. That map is comparable to the 19T wheel used in Mitsubishi TD06 turbos. That's a bigger turbo than the F25-series one we're developing for a 2.5L displacement.

It's just bad design. We make our turbos as small as possible to reach the power levels we're marketing for. The F23T is the product of that philosophy. But for those who simply gotta have the biggest honkin' compressor wheel you can cram in a housing, the TTE420 is just your ticket.

 

[doug@frankenturbo]

I just researched this thing a bit. Checked the pricing at the dealers selling it. And now I don't know why I got my panties in a bunch over this turbo. It costs nearly twice as much as ours. God, they're making a nice profit on these. Link:


http://www.akstuning.co.uk/the-turbo-engineers-tte/212-tte420-k04-hybrid-turbo.html#/new_or_reconditioned-brand_new


If I've got any reason to be grumpy, it's the mad stacks those Engineers are counting up.

 

[RichBGTI]

It does cost more, certainly in the US. The difference in Europe though is much less once you factor in shipping, duty, VAT .etc.

Really though it just comes down to the right product when the price difference is negligible.

 

[HYDE161]

Like the oem fitment of k04 (variants) and not having to have too much custom work done.

My last car was an Audi A3 1.8T and I did all the work myself. There were no off the shelf parts available at the time so had to fit and make most things myself. I was running an IHI vf34 and had a custom downpipe made. I made the inter cooler pipework and turbo intake pipework, and did loads of other stuff inc head rebuild, new rods, racelogic traction control .etc. Absolutely loved that car, had it 12 years and nothing ever broke because of the power, but was time to move on as the wife couldn't really drive that too easily (did require a bit of a technique!)

Sooo, in terms of reliability I want to keep things as close to OEM as possible... May be a false sense of security but there you go also don't really have the time these days to spend all evening and weekends with a wrench in my hand (though would love to!)


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Get ready for the Pag Part Turbo EFR kit, the entire turbo and manifold bolts on with intake.

 

[lilonespaz]

If I've got any reason to be grumpy, it's the mad stacks those Engineers are counting up.

Thats the TRuff.

 

[Sanderzzz]

Get ready for the Pag Part Turbo EFR kit, the entire turbo and manifold bolts on with intake.

Any idea the #'s on that?

 

[drepai]

Some very good results though. Also look to be very popular and tte do some pretty awesome things with other cars (1040ps rs6 .etc)

Will do some further research on that though and see if anyone has had any issues... Prob a compressor map about somewhere!

Thanks for the input


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Good #s =/= efficient design.

Clipped turbine wheels are a ghetto way of improving flow through the hot side, any properly designed turbo will not require wheel clipping. Do a bit of research on it before you make your decision.

The new version of the f23t can make 400whp on e85 and it spools fast as hell

 

[ErBall]

Good #s =/= efficient design.

Clipped turbine wheels are a ghetto way of improving flow through the hot side, any properly designed turbo will not require wheel clipping. Do a bit of research on it before you make your decision.

The new version of the f23t can make 400whp on e85 and it spools fast as hell

It has made 400whp, but I wouldn't advertise it as such. He stretched like all hell to get it there. Nevertheless it's pretty dang impresssive he got there.

 

[drepai]

Yeah 27 psi on e85 with no meth, just a fifth injector. The torque curve and spool are both amazing. Cool to know what Doug's new design can do but definitely not your average setup.

 

[corrado917]

That compressor map is a great illustration of what I said before. Whatever source for that map, and whatever manufacturer they use for their comp wheel, it's ludicrously big for application in a small turbo like a K04. That map is comparable to the 19T wheel used in Mitsubishi TD06 turbos. That's a bigger turbo than the F25-series one we're developing for a 2.5L displacement..

Tell us about please! :drool: for the MK6 GTI?

Yeah 27 psi on e85 with no meth, just a fifth injector. The torque curve and spool are both amazing. Cool to know what Doug's new design can do .

:word: