High Altitude DBV2 - Denver

[docwyte]

There seems to be a big break over point financially in these cars. It's either you run the setup MSH has, so E30-40, IS38, EQT tune and make ~400-420hp or you step up to a hybrid turbo. At that point you really start emptying your wallet to take advantage of the big turbo, having to run a larger fuel pump, MPI, etc, etc.

At some point I could see going hybrid turbo but not until my stock turbo blows up. Once my stock clutch gives it up I'll upgrade it and then tune the car with the EQT stage 2 E30 mapping. That seems to be the best choice for us here at altitude.

I used to have a Stage 3 B5 S4 Avant that I thought was pretty quick up here. When I did One Lap in it and drove down to sea level I couldn't believe how much more powerful it was! Altitude kills the cars up here, only thing going for us forced induction guys is it hits the NA motors even more...

 

[Hoon]

There seems to be a big break over point financially in these cars.

Couldn't agree more. These cars are super cost effective to make power with in the beginning, then it falls off a cliff and makes no sense.

If I could do it all over I'd stay IS38, Cobb, HPFP, E50 tune.

For what I've put into this car in the last 6 months I could have put together a 1000hp setup on another platform. I've spent at least $8K since my car was last driven.

 

[Hoon]

how do you feel about ecutek? I've been playing around with it in demo mode and I really like it. Of course in theory, not in implementation - yet.

I haven't paid a whole lot of attention because I lost all interest when they announced no self tuning.

From what I've seen it's really lacking in some important areas but they're working to fix that.

At this point I'd definitely choose Cobb first.

literally because of your post, I will look more into Maestro for my upcoming tune.

Why do you prefer Maestro? Self adjustability?

Maestro has one huge advantage, self tuning. There are no resources to learn it so you're basically on your own. I've tuned my own car on 3 turbos and 2 fuel systems. If I had to pay for each of those tunes id be out thousands of additional dollars. Maestro you pay the $800 for the cable and license and you're good forever.

If you're going to pay a tuner, go Cobb. Cobb does more than Maestro does, and is superior in a lot of ways.

 

[railroader]

One more thing about maestro, like hoon said cobb is superior in a lot of ways but even still maestro makes the same amount of power and produces the same times as any other tuning option out there,

 

[The Dude]

Maestro not supporting flex fuel without fooling with a slider is what keeps me from wanting to use it.

 

[MSH]

Any updates on plans CR39 after talking to BW? Timeline to install?

 

[docwyte]

You know you want to install a EQT Vortex XL MSH!

 

[MSH]

You know you want to install a EQT Vortex XL MSH!

Not happening! If I did do Vortex it would be std housing, but that probably won’t happen either. I’m happy with where I’m at on IS38 and Ed’s E40 tune and just don’t want the potential headaches and costs of upgrading LPFP. I know most are just fine but there have been enough issues with that upgrade that I just don’t want to deal. Reliability and low headache potential is what I’m after so I’m willing to sacrifice max power. What is highly likely is a Littco L380 or L380x supercore Upgrade to give me some reliability insurance and it’s cheaper than going Vortex + LPFP. The L380x is tempting because Ed could squeeze some additional power vs what I have now. Also, this IS38 dies so hard much after 5250-5500 at our altitude. That L380x might be a bit better in that regard.

 

[jimlloyd40]

Not happening! If I did do Vortex it would be std housing, but that probably won’t happen either. I’m happy with where I’m at on IS38 and Ed’s E40 tune and just don’t want the potential headaches and costs of upgrading LPFP. I know most are just fine but there have been enough issues with that upgrade that I just don’t want to deal. Reliability and low headache potential is what I’m after so I’m willing to sacrifice max power. What is highly likely is a Littco L380 or L380x supercore Upgrade to give me some reliability insurance and it’s cheaper than going Vortex + LPFP. The L380x is tempting because Ed could squeeze some additional power vs what I have now. Also, this IS38 dies so hard much after 5250-5500 at our altitude. That L380x might be a bit better in that regard.

The TPC20 would give you more power after 5200 RPM also without the need for the LPFP. On mine I gained over 50HP after 5200 RPM vs the IS38.

 

[MSH]

The TPC20 would give you more power after 5200 RPM also without the need for the LPFP. On mine I gained over 50HP after 5200 RPM vs the IS38.

The TPC20 looks like a great turbo and would be at top of my list for an alternative to the Vortex. I’ve had a couple of email exchanges with Nick at TPC on it as it’s a great solution for those of us at altitude. The big issue is I don’t think Ed would be willing to tune for E blend (e30-e40) without upgrading the LPFP.. I’m completely sold on e blends (vs 91 pump which is what we are stuck w here) based on my current e40 tune and the availability of E is plentiful here in Denver. I don’t want to deal with the potential hassles on the Lpfp upgrade front. With the L380 or L380x I can still E blend @ e30-e40 on the Autotech HPFP I already have installed with oem LPFP.

 

[docwyte]

MSH, please. I know you've got a Boss700 kit in your cart already!

What're the issues with the LPFP install? You could still run the Vortex XL with the HPFP, while the lag from it will be more than the standard housing I think the power up top is worth it. After all the XL housing is based on the IS38 we already have vs the standard housing based off the IS20. So how much more laggy can it be vs the IS38 we currently own?

Just seems like if you're going thru the bother of a turbo swap, you may as well get one that flows properly up top. I hate buying twice...

 

[jimlloyd40]

The TPC20 looks like a great turbo and would be at top of my list for an alternative to the Vortex. I’ve had a couple of email exchanges with Nick at TPC on it as it’s a great solution for those of us at altitude. The big issue is I don’t think Ed would be willing to tune for E blend (e30-e40) without upgrading the LPFP.. I’m completely sold on e blends (vs 91 pump which is what we are stuck w here) based on my current e40 tune and the availability of E is plentiful here in Denver. I don’t want to deal with the potential hassles on the Lpfp upgrade front. With the L380 or L380x I can still E blend @ e30-e40 on the Autotech HPFP I already have installed with oem LPFP.

I don't see why EQT wouldn't tune the TPC20 for e30-40 if you know that they'll tune the L380X for it since the L380X and the TPC20 are pretty equal in size.

 

[MSH]

I don't see why EQT wouldn't tune the TPC20 for e30-40 if you know that they'll tune the L380X for it since the L380X and the TPC20 are pretty equal in size.

Both the Std Vortex and TPC20 have the IS20 housing from my understanding, but both much larger compressor and turbine size vs the stock IS38 or L380X. I'm almost certain EQT will require a LPFP to run E30/E40 on a TPC20 based on their FAQ's on the the website, since both the Std Vortex and TPC20 are very similar.
With regards to the L380X "billbadass" here on the forums was tuned by Ed on E48 with only a HPFP (dyno sheet link below), so that's why I was interested in this turbo. Basically just upgraded bearings and higher flow compressor wheel vs the stock IS38, but other than that I think the specs are almost exact between the stock IS38 and the L380X.
https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/inde...5aocba5I9eY4NB83nh-U-TtCcDVtr_3v_S4PPSgzuqIUQ

 

[jimlloyd40]

Both the Std Vortex and TPC20 have the IS20 housing from my understanding, but both much larger compressor and turbine size vs the stock IS38 or L380X. I'm almost certain EQT will require a LPFP to run E30/E40 on a TPC20 based on their FAQ's on the the website, since both the Std Vortex and TPC20 are very similar.
With regards to the L380X "billbadass" here on the forums was tuned by Ed on E48 with only a HPFP (dyno sheet link below), so that's why I was interested in this turbo. Basically just upgraded bearings and higher flow compressor wheel vs the stock IS38, but other than that I think the specs are almost exact between the stock IS38 and the L380X.
https://www.golfmk7.com/forums/index.php?attachments/20190918_214148-jpg.158926/&fbclid=IwAR2Ui_T0r6Z1iW5aocba5I9eY4NB83nh-U-TtCcDVtr_3v_S4PPSgzuqIUQ

So the L380X has a higher flow compressor wheel. Is it the same size as the IS38 compressor wheel and what makes it higher flow?

 

[MSH]

So the L380X has a higher flow compressor wheel. Is it the same size as the IS38 compressor wheel and what makes it higher flow?

No clue honestly. Other people on this forum much smarter than I that can probably answer your question.
I just know for my car I'm happy with the power I have on the stock IS38 on ed's E40 tune. My only concern all along has been the reliability long term of running the stock turbo on this tune. The L380x fits what I'm looking which is pretty much the stock IS38 in terms of size with upgraded bearings for better reliability (& the slightly larger than stock compressor wheel) and based on another forum member being tuned by Ed with only a HPFP on E48 seemed to check all the boxes for me. (i.e. dont have to add LPFP on a E30 or E40 tune).
Being able to eek out a couple more HP's even if it's only 10-15 from my current set up would just be icing on the cake