StewieGriffin
Banned
thats very true. some people defend the 2nd ammendment to the death like they wrote it lol there are just some people who will always have guns, nothing we can do about that
8
Shooting at a Connecticut Elementary School
- Thread starter FaLLeNAn9eL
- Start date
thats very true. some people defend the 2nd ammendment to the death like they wrote it lol there are just some people who will always have guns, nothing we can do about that
StewieGriffin
Banned
exactly, the war on drugs is the same principle. marijuana is illegal, but i can go buy some right now, same as guns. Just like the war on drugs has failed miserably, the war on guns will be the same fate. there are just too many guns in america and its like trying to get rid of all the weed, its impossible. you cant remove guns, only thing we can do is try to educate people to be smarter.
I'm for tougher gun laws but I don't think that is the issue here. Mental health should be addressed first. Whether or not he could get a gun he would still find a way to hurt people if the intent is there. Check out this article from CNN today:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html
No gun but he still hurt people. Of course it's mental illness but should be ban knives too?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html
No gun but he still hurt people. Of course it's mental illness but should be ban knives too?
StewieGriffin
Banned
i mean what more can we do regarding mental health, how much more can we help them?
Stranded in Daytona
Go Kart Champion
While we had this shooting today, China had 22 people stabbed at a school... It's not the inanimate object, it's the lack of education and proper upbringing, as well as a major cultural flaw in recognizing signs of mental health issues. While I am very anti gun control, I will agree that the mental health check issue needs to be exploited more. The problem with people with mental health issues and mass shootings is that they are young males (Early 20's)... there is a good chance they have no mental health record if the signs have been ignored. I feel that our country is a nation with an attitude of "Don't express your anger, you might offend someone" and that is terrible. People hide their emotions for fear of reprisal, and eventually it will explode. If they don't use a gun, they will use a bomb, or they will set a fire, something.
I also like to look to Utah, as a great example of proper gun control laws being put into effect. They are the only state in our nation that has legalized the concealed carry of weapons on educational properties. They did this in the wake of a fatal school shooting in the 80's I believe... They haven't had a fatal school shooting since it's been made legal, if I'm not mistaken.
Gun Free zones = Targets (schools/malls/movie theaters/banks/etc)
I also like to look to Utah, as a great example of proper gun control laws being put into effect. They are the only state in our nation that has legalized the concealed carry of weapons on educational properties. They did this in the wake of a fatal school shooting in the 80's I believe... They haven't had a fatal school shooting since it's been made legal, if I'm not mistaken.
Gun Free zones = Targets (schools/malls/movie theaters/banks/etc)
Stranded in Daytona
Go Kart Champion
There should be more programs and educations to help people recognize potential mental health issues in people... recognizing and addressing them at a younger age is the best way to curtail negative outcomes. Teachers of all grades need this training. Parents should also be offered the opportunity to get this training as well. A state govt subsidized class would be a great option to help teach parents what to look for, as well as resources to use if they feel they need them.
StewieGriffin
Banned
you make some great points. I agree that its a very american attitude to hide emotions and dont show signs of mental problems until it implodes and this happens. Although, you cant be sure that the reason that Utah hasnt had a shooting is 100% becuase of the CCW laws on campus. That could backfire very easily.
Stranded in Daytona
Go Kart Champion
Very true... but if you look over the mass shootings that have happened in the past 30 years... how many were not at a gun free zone?
Nothing is a guarantee, but looking at the statistics over years of events, I am a true believer in the fact that a person wanting to inflict massive amounts of damage as an individual will not do so where he has the chance of being challenged immediately.
This kid was prepared for a firefight with police, but Imagine if someone already inside could have responded within seconds.
There are lots of variables... I realize most people that carry concealed don't take any additional training other than going to the range and shooting each month... but there are others of us that do take personal defense courses. These courses are available to people, and should be discounted for teachers and other first responders that aren't specifically LEO's (aka teachers/firefighters/emt's).
cskm
Banned
i understand the points made that stricter gun control laws wont do anything because criminals will find ways to buy guns off the black market anyways. well those 2 points are exactly relevent because so far, all of the mass killings in schools, theatres weren't from registered criminals, but troubled teens.
the idea to make it harder for people own guns is to eliminate the threat of some kid getting upset during school and running home to grab a gun and coming back to kill whoever upset them in the heat of rage. if the gun wasn't there in the first place, the kid would've had time to cool down and hopefully consider his/her other options ie. man the fuck up and face whoever bothers you.
also, heres some tough statistics.
last year america had 10,800 murders from handguns.
canada had 52, britain had 8, japan had 48 etc list goes on and on. America is the only country in the world which broke the ten's of thousands of murders/yr just with gun violence alone. way higher than even israel 58
the idea to make it harder for people own guns is to eliminate the threat of some kid getting upset during school and running home to grab a gun and coming back to kill whoever upset them in the heat of rage. if the gun wasn't there in the first place, the kid would've had time to cool down and hopefully consider his/her other options ie. man the fuck up and face whoever bothers you.
also, heres some tough statistics.
last year america had 10,800 murders from handguns.
canada had 52, britain had 8, japan had 48 etc list goes on and on. America is the only country in the world which broke the ten's of thousands of murders/yr just with gun violence alone. way higher than even israel 58
StewieGriffin
Banned
statistics like these are shocking. 10,800 compared to 52. damn
cskm
Banned
but keep it into perspective, that population difference weighs a huge factor in this argument as well. US has a much larger population than canada does.
Stranded in Daytona
Go Kart Champion
Here are some more statistics for you:
Following the federal Gun Control Act (1968), violent crime increased until 1991. Washington, D.C., banned handguns in 1976, and by 1991 its murder rate tripled while the U.S. rate rose only 12%. Despite having some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country, Maryland’s robbery rate remains the highest among the states, and Baltimore’s murder rate is similar to D.C.’s.
Since 1991, violent crime has declined 38% overall, to a 30-year low. Murder has decreased 43%; rape, 25%; robbery, 48%; and aggravated assault, 33%.
In Australia: One year after gun-owners were forced to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed, including semi-automatic .22 rifles and shotguns, a program costing the government over 500 million dollars, the results are in: A dramatic increase in criminal activity has been experienced.
* Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2%
* Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6%
* Australia-wide, armed-robberies are up 44% (yes, FORTY-FOUR PERCENT)
* In the state of Victoria, homicides-with-firearms are up 300%
* Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in homicides-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
* Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed-robbery-with-firearms (changed dramatically in the past 12 months)
* There has been a dramatic increase in breakins-and-assaults-of- the-elderly
I didn't forget the UK either:
A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.
The research, commissioned by the Countryside Alliance's Campaign for Shooting, has concluded that existing laws are targeting legitimate users of firearms rather than criminals. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1440764.stm)
Stranded in Daytona
Go Kart Champion
btw... if you got your data from this image:
I'm pretty sure that is from the 80's... (ie "West Germany"). Also, switzerland has more gun owners than any other country per capita if I'm not mistaken.
I'm pretty sure that is from the 80's... (ie "West Germany"). Also, switzerland has more gun owners than any other country per capita if I'm not mistaken.
freshpots
r'zub n t'zug
btw... if you got your data from this image:
I'm pretty sure that is from the 80's... (ie "West Germany"). Also, switzerland has more gun owners than any other country per capita if I'm not mistaken.
Meaning 1 in every ~30,000 people in the US will have died from gun related incidents every year
BlaineWasHere
I brake for apexes!
Let's not make this about gun control.