Which coil overs are best for my situation

[up4speed]

I'm in the process of deciding whether to buy a different track car, or improve my GTI further. I am considering coil overs at this time.
My goal is to be able to daily drive it in reasonable comfort, but able to track it (more important, I have other cars to use for a daily). I'm looking for a lot less body roll, and I want the edges of the front tires to last longer.
I only want to lower it a little bit to lower the center of gravity. I'm thinking about 1/2" to 3/4" front and back equally. So if I'm forced to make it too low, I won't be happy.
I'm between 3 setups that are in 3 different price ranges. I would like to save money if possible, but if the better ones are worth it, I'm ok spending the money if I have to. However, if I can brag that the car is so much better, and I ONLY spent XXX amount, that's great too! If there's a point of diminishing returns which can save a lot of money for a very small loss in performance, that's where I would like to be, if possible.
Here are the options, I would love some input from those that have tried them:

Bilstein B16 $1629
KW V2 $2,134 (+$505 over Bilstein)
Ohlins R&T $2,690 (+$1,061 over Bilstein and +$556 over KW's)

I was also looking to pair them with the Eurosport street camber kit. I like that it doesn't affect NVH, but it only adds about .8 deg of camber. Hopefully that's enough to help turn in, and slow the tire wear on the edges.

If there are any other setups that I missed and should consider, please let me know. Thanks!

 

[2LEEGIT]

B16 out of those 3 options, bang for the buck. You’ll want more camber than the plus -0.8deg.

 

[jay745]

Ohlins will perform the best by far. And agreed you're going to be disappointed with only -.8 of camber. -2.5 is the sweet spot

Get real camber plates if you're investing in performance coilovers.

 

[JerseyDrew77]

Fortune Auto 510 series, already come with camber plates.

 

[krs]

I'm in the process of deciding whether to buy a different track car, or improve my GTI further. I am considering coil overs at this time.
My goal is to be able to daily drive it in reasonable comfort, but able to track it (more important, I have other cars to use for a daily). I'm looking for a lot less body roll, and I want the edges of the front tires to last longer.
I only want to lower it a little bit to lower the center of gravity. I'm thinking about 1/2" to 3/4" front and back equally. So if I'm forced to make it too low, I won't be happy.
I'm between 3 setups that are in 3 different price ranges. I would like to save money if possible, but if the better ones are worth it, I'm ok spending the money if I have to. However, if I can brag that the car is so much better, and I ONLY spent XXX amount, that's great too! If there's a point of diminishing returns which can save a lot of money for a very small loss in performance, that's where I would like to be, if possible.
Here are the options, I would love some input from those that have tried them:

Bilstein B16 $1629
KW V2 $2,134 (+$505 over Bilstein)
Ohlins R&T $2,690 (+$1,061 over Bilstein and +$556 over KW's)

I was also looking to pair them with the Eurosport street camber kit. I like that it doesn't affect NVH, but it only adds about .8 deg of camber. Hopefully that's enough to help turn in, and slow the tire wear on the edges.

If there are any other setups that I missed and should consider, please let me know. Thanks!

What is your camber at now? I'm at -2.8° now with the eurosport kit, and offset LCA bushings.

Can the non DCC B16's be rebuilt? I have B16 DCC kit, and they cannot be rebuilt. When it's time for replacement I will be switching to the Ohlins, and removing the DCC.

However I will say my B16's are great for my need. Their lowering limit is really not that low, but I mainly autocross not track. But I've been happy with their performance including daily driving.

 

[scrllock]

Of those, Ohlins. Easily. They're reasonably-priced for aluminum-body inverted monotubes. Adjusters are on the bottom so you don't need to fuck up your chassis with notches. It's a single body design, unlike the universal stuff that the cheap TW struts like BC/Fortune use, so you don't compromise shock travel. Anyone can rebuild them vs. sending back to KW or hoping bilstein doesn't send you nerfed shocks that they crimp so they can't be rebuilt.

I would only do eurosport mounts if you've got CSS knuckles or other sources of camber. If you want the edges to last, -2.5 is an ok compromise for daily driving, shoot for -2.8 to -3.0 if you're getting more serious. Camber plates pay for themselves quickly if you're still using Cup2s.

 

[JerseyDrew77]

Of those, Ohlins. Easily. They're reasonably-priced for aluminum-body inverted monotubes. Adjusters are on the bottom so you don't need to fuck up your chassis with notches. It's a single body design, unlike the universal stuff that the cheap TW struts like BC/Fortune use, so you don't compromise shock travel. Anyone can rebuild them vs. sending back to KW or hoping bilstein doesn't send you nerfed shocks that they crimp so they can't be rebuilt.

I would only do eurosport mounts if you've got CSS knuckles or other sources of camber. If you want the edges to last, -2.5 is an ok compromise for daily driving, shoot for -2.8 to -3.0 if you're getting more serious. Camber plates pay for themselves quickly if you're still using Cup2s.

Please elaborate on the bolded text.

 

[scrllock]

Please elaborate on the bolded text.

Threaded sleeve coils use the same damper cartridge on many different struts, it just threads into the body that fits into the car it's sold for. Rather than using the full length of the shock body for shaft travel, you just get the length of the cartridge, which will be less. The coilovers OP mentioned are all threaded body. They market this as an advantage (set preload and height independently!) but it's just cost-savings.

This is an okay explanation with miata shocks:

FAs are nice in that they'll come with linear springs and digressive valving, but I didn't think the quality on the sets I've seen merited the mark-up compared to BC DS-series.

 

[IGM2019]

Pretty happy with my Ohlins I just installed. It's not much stiffer compared to stock. -2.3 degrees of camber in front with 034 camber mount, rears are at -2.0 degrees of camber. Only lowered the car a little more than 1/2" all around. Only noticed more NVH when I hit a super hard bump that can bend a wheel, otherwise no noise. Stockers were making squeaking going over speedbumps.

 

[tigeo]

I run the Eurosport mounts with the Superpro aluminum LCAs and I'm on H&R springs. I'm sitting dead at -2.0 up front which has been ok for street/track...I'd like a bit more mabye -2.5. Nice thing on the ES is they are quiet/stock mounts. For the coilovers, the B16 set is very nice and well priced...Rock Auto has them for my 50mm strut Sportwagen for ~$1400...hard to beat that...probably lower price b/c 50mm set isn't as popular. Bilsteins don't tolerate camber mounts very well from what I've seen (they tell you not to run them) of a few with sheared off tops and Bilstein woulnd't warranty them...something to keep in mind.

 

[tigeo]

Threaded sleeve coils use the same damper cartridge on many different struts, it just threads into the body that fits into the car it's sold for. Rather than using the full length of the shock body for shaft travel, you just get the length of the cartridge, which will be less. The coilovers OP mentioned are all threaded body. They market this as an advantage (set preload and height independently!) but it's just cost-savings.

This is an okay explanation with miata shocks:

FAs are nice in that they'll come with linear springs and digressive valving, but I didn't think the quality on the sets I've seen merited the mark-up compared to BC DS-series.

This video is pretty good, I've watched it several times. Nothing wrong wtih these kind coilovers to me if you accept a bit less total travel AND know how to property set them up which many do not including the companies selling them (i.e. don't touch the spring perch adjustment and adjust ride height with the body adjustment). They do allow a lot of adjustability and customization. @DerHase and I have been chatting about this this week....some good videos showing the right way to do it:

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

FAs are nice in that they'll come with linear springs and digressive valving, but I didn't think the quality on the sets I've seen merited the mark-up compared to BC DS-series.

I wouldn’t blankly say it’s markup, while the part are from Taiwan the fortune’s get filled, valved, and assembled stateside paying guys(or gals) U.S wages, my understanding is BC only does initial r&d and tweaking stateside then it’s bodies are all built and assembled overseas, and then physical QC here before sending to customers. In that reality I don’t doubt the margins and “markup” are much higher on BC.

 

[tigeo]

I wouldn’t blankly say it’s markup, while the part are from Taiwan the fortune’s get filled, valved, and assembled stateside paying guys(or gals) U.S wages, my understanding is BC only does initial r&d and tweaking stateside then it’s bodies are all built and assembled overseas, and then physical QC here before sending to customers. In that reality I don’t doubt the margins and “markup” are much higher on BC.

FA is 5 mi from me here and I've been through their facility.

 

[DerHase]

If it’s ever going to be a dedicated track car, don’t. Consumable costs, reliability, and chassis limitations will have you slower than a stock C5 Corvette on 200TW tires.

It sounds like you have similar goals as me overall. I agree these cars are a great do-it-all kind of platform. Check out www.datadrivenmqb.com

To put things in perspective, here is a lap of mine at VIR on stock springs, Koni Special Active shocks, H&R F/R 26mm sway bars, 034 camber plates, BFI LCA rearward bushings, and Powerflex offset LCA bushings:

And here’s a lap from @Mini7 which has 529 coilovers ($4-5k), some Verkline goodies, etc:

He still has some setup stuff to sort out (he’s adding a bigger FSB which I suspect will help a lot)… but the takeaway is that “decent” camber + good shocks + sway bars will get you comparable overall performance for 1/10th the cost. He’s got a couple mph on me in T10 and 17, I’ve got more on him in several other turns.

He’s also got probably 40 more hp than I did at that time hence the 131 vs 147mph on the back straight.


Despite the power difference, I’m off of him by <0.2 sec from the S/F line to Oak Tree(T12).

For what it’s worth, you have roughly a pinky’s worth of shock shaft showing at stock ride height. Hitting the bumps isn’t a problem, but there is exactly 2.8in until shock body hits the top hat with my 245/40R17s on 17x9 wheels.

My 255/40R17s hit fender first at the 2.6in bump travel point FWIW. That means 7% more bump travel just from running a narrower tire. Works out because the 245s are faster on a 9in wide wheel anyway.

I’m currently going through suspension stuff on my car, going to re-test some 034 RCO ball joints once lowered (got some 034 lowering springs to try out). They made the car undriveable at stock ride height (I really just wanted the camber - that’s all)… so I pulled them off until lowering the car.


You don’t need any wild setups to go fast. Having compliance and bump travel is indeed helpful. Taking curbs vs not at VIR is roughly 3 seconds alone.

In my experience, suspension gains on a FWD car are minimal as long as the shocks aren’t complete garbage and you can get as much camber as you’re willing to live with.

I’m wrapping up the bump/droop/bumpsteer/suspension in general stuff this weekend, will try to remember to follow up and post the video or article here whenever that happens.

Of your list, Ohlins are the only way to go IMO. Get some 650lb springs for the rear though.

There’s something to be said about driver “feel”… but that doesn’t always mean faster. Working on the driver is normally the right answer.

Edit: holy shit fixed the massive pics.

 

[up4speed]

B16 out of those 3 options, bang for the buck. You’ll want more camber than the plus -0.8deg.

When I lower it about 3/4" won't that add a little more negative camber? I was hoping for at least -1.5