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The Model 3 ruined my life

johnnloki

Go Kart Champion
Started reading a bit, but stopped when I saw someone bringing up batteries. Critical thing with EVs (speaking as co-owner of an EV): Batteries and degradation. People wrongly assume that quick charging is the main cause of degradation. It's a slight contributor, but you're better off only using quick chargers if you're not overcharging.

Just like your cell phone or your laptop, you want to keep your EV battery generally between 20% and 70%. If you top up your cellphone to 100% every night, you're wrecking the battery and you'll hate the remaining battery life within 2 years.

Don't deep drain it to under 20% and don't charge it above 70% and you won't experience degradation. This means you're using 50% of the battery's capacity and that realistically, you need a stated range that is actually double of your typical daily requirement.

Also, if you highway drive in actual winter conditions (think -15C and worse) then your mileage suffers due to parasitic losses in battery and other equipment, as well as heating. In that case, you need to be able to make due with really only 33% of stated range.

The whole point of this is to avoid a situation where a car meets your needs for 2 or 3 years, then starts to fail at meeting your needs and becomes near useless. If you properly size the battery by the above math, and not by the 'skin of your teeth' math, then you won't have much, if any, battery degradation even after a decade.

The leafs that you've heard about that have horrible range degradation are always leafs that are charged to 100% at night, and very often also then hooked up to a charger at work too.

Don't charge your EV to 100% every night, and it'll be fine long term. Feel free to charge to 100% when you know you'll need the extra range, and use quick chargers whenever needed.
 

dr_mat

Go Kart Champion
Started reading a bit, but stopped when I saw someone bringing up batteries. Critical thing with EVs (speaking as co-owner of an EV): Batteries and degradation. People wrongly assume that quick charging is the main cause of degradation. It's a slight contributor, but you're better off only using quick chargers if you're not overcharging.



Just like your cell phone or your laptop, you want to keep your EV battery generally between 20% and 70%. If you top up your cellphone to 100% every night, you're wrecking the battery and you'll hate the remaining battery life within 2 years.



Don't deep drain it to under 20% and don't charge it above 70% and you won't experience degradation. This means you're using 50% of the battery's capacity and that realistically, you need a stated range that is actually double of your typical daily requirement.



Also, if you highway drive in actual winter conditions (think -15C and worse) then your mileage suffers due to parasitic losses in battery and other equipment, as well as heating. In that case, you need to be able to make due with really only 33% of stated range.



The whole point of this is to avoid a situation where a car meets your needs for 2 or 3 years, then starts to fail at meeting your needs and becomes near useless. If you properly size the battery by the above math, and not by the 'skin of your teeth' math, then you won't have much, if any, battery degradation even after a decade.



The leafs that you've heard about that have horrible range degradation are always leafs that are charged to 100% at night, and very often also then hooked up to a charger at work too.



Don't charge your EV to 100% every night, and it'll be fine long term. Feel free to charge to 100% when you know you'll need the extra range, and use quick chargers whenever needed.
This is all true, no disagreement and I've heard of a lot of early gen Leafs with appalling batteries now. But I can say that there is evidence that the Teslas are not degrading the same way, and that the prospect of battery replacement is probably less likely than a head gasket replacement on a petrol engined car. Look around the net, plenty of model S with quarter a million miles around now on the original batteries.



...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG
 

johnnloki

Go Kart Champion
New=scary to most people. Established industry preys on that. New industry tends to hide valid information and advice out of fear of gotcha quotes, that doesn't help anyone, unfortunately.

Teslas are a little bit weird with their batteries- they've altered their chemistry significantly, they've altered their BMs operations a bit, and they've got some batteries that are software limited (I.e., the s60 has the same battery as the 75, with a software enforced buffer on the top 20% of the charging availability, so you can never charge past 80% anyway, meaning they really don't degrade)

Tesla is also constantly altering charging parameters in response to paranoia about a couple of fires ... even though conventional ice cars are somewhere around 10 times more likely to cause a spontaneous fire accident or no, new=scary...

Hey, did you hear that the somehow meat tasting Beyond Meat has the neurotoxin hexane used in the production of the ingredients in it? BOO! SCARY! WITCHCRAFT! Oh, yeah, it is and has always been utilized in the production of canola oil, an ingredient that's in tons of other processed foods, including some processed beef burgers.

Did you hear that living near a windmill causes cancer? Scary!! Lack of sleep can contribute to many cancers, and living at the base of a 350 ft tall windmill can make sleep difficult, thankfully most giant turbines are located miles from residences. You know what definitely causes cancer? Being in the same county as petrochemical mining, petrochemical refining, hydrocarbon burning generation, radioactive waste, etc.

Hey did you hear 20 years ago about those newfangled Toyota Prius hybrids, and how they're going to essentially make you remortgage your house once that big battery needs replacing? It's going to be the most expensive vehicle you could ever buy if you're dumb enough to buy one. Fast forward and the Prius has been the lowest total cost of ownership basically every year of production as they are essentially the most reliable cars since the Merc W123. (although there are darker costs associated with driving a Prius, like actually living with driving a Prius)

Wait, where was I going with this again? Oh yeah, some people say they will miss the roar of an engine, the smell of exhaust, etc. Cowboys hated that the first cars didn't shit on their lawns, or operate as an organic birth control due to testicular trauma (they lacked the engaging experience and dynamic handling of a horse on long journeys, and did you hear that this new horseless carriage can only go 20 miles before needing another fill? How the hell will we ever manage a charging er... I mean, fuel distribution infrastructure like that?)

Some people are freaking out when they hear that handwriting isn't taught in many schools now. People used to freak out when they stopped teaching you how to turn whale oil into lamp fuel in school.

It's progress. It'll keep getting better. Evs aren't really "chuckable" drivers just yet, but electric power steering was disgusting when it was first introduced, and its pretty good on my GTI.

I am sure that VW will make some engaging fully EV version of the GTI/R fairly soon.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
 

johnnloki

Go Kart Champion
Wot he said ^^

:)


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG
And I said it all in one breath. I'm one of those crazy people with the wearable signs and the pamphlets at the city's busiest intersections.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
 

TheWombat

Go Kart Champion
The Tesla Model 3 which this thread is about starts at $35,000.
Was referring to the Model S with all the trimmings, sorry. The Model 3 is butt ugly, and has an interior that doesn't do it for me. I do love the motor/electric tech though. Give me a Model 3 with a TT body, and I'd be all over it.
 

cldlhd

Go Kart Champion
Ever since I test drove the Tesla Model 3 Performance, my GTI seems like junk. The instant acceleration of that motor was just insane. I have never felt such power. Not only that, but the car handled so well and the steering felt really nice. I have been crunching numbers ever since. The whole idea of electric just blows me away. I could set the cars AC to be on without worry of carbon monoxide in the garage. The gas savings of $80 a month are very appealing. The tax incentive of $7,500 would have made it a sealed deal but now that dropped to around $1,875. My next car goal was a BMW but now I don't even want that. I want instant power and I love that there is no engine or exhaust noise. Arizona has some amazing electricity rates especially if you own an EV. It would cost me about $1 to charge from 11pm-6am. Also, I would save a lot in vehicle registration costs. It would cost the Tesla around $14 for 5 years of registration. It would cost my GTI around $300 a year plus oil changes and other maintenance. The standard range model 3 is nice too but I have my eyes on the long range AWD version. Those power figures are close to the performance 3. Also, those self driving features seem really neat.
If this is a real post and not just Tesla propaganda I say wait for a real car company to make electric cars , like VW with the MEB platform.
 

jimlloyd40

Drag Race Newbie
If this is a real post and not just Tesla propaganda I say wait for a real car company to make electric cars , like VW with the MEB platform.
I sure didn't consider that to be propaganda. Tesla is a real company and way ahead of everyone with EV's.
 

cldlhd

Go Kart Champion
I sure didn't consider that to be propaganda. Tesla is a real company and way ahead of everyone with EV's.
I know they're a real company and I'm not saying it is definitely propaganda but there are a lot of Fanboys who like to go around saying how once you drive a Tesla it ruins your life for everything else. It's pretty common on all kinds of car forums with other brands.
 

johnnloki

Go Kart Champion
Yeah, Teslas are all well and good in a straight line, but they are definitely still fairly heavy feeling in a corner, despite the gobs of instant awesome torque and AWD. If you really liked Mustangs in the mid oughts, then a Tesla is probably your dream car. If you really liked the Lotus Elise, then even the original roadster in the same chassis is definitely not your dream car.

There's a reason that the front end of the Model 3 shares such a similar overall look to the Porsche Cayenne SUV. They are selling those cars to the same sorts of people. Not to us. Not yet.
 

dr_mat

Go Kart Champion
Yeah, Teslas are all well and good in a straight line, but they are definitely still fairly heavy feeling in a corner, despite the gobs of instant awesome torque and AWD. If you really liked Mustangs in the mid oughts, then a Tesla is probably your dream car. If you really liked the Lotus Elise, then even the original roadster in the same chassis is definitely not your dream car.

There's a reason that the front end of the Model 3 shares such a similar overall look to the Porsche Cayenne SUV. They are selling those cars to the same sorts of people. Not to us. Not yet.
Yes the designs are specifically aimed at being innocuous and stereotypically "American Sedan". Not to my taste. But I love the drivetrain..

Also, the lack of a cooling radiator means no need for the usual grille on the front of the car at all.

They are still quicker than equivalent "good handling" cars of the traditional variety, even in the twisties, just because of their ability to make use of whatever grip there is in every part of the corner.

Anyhow, tis a fabulous way to fire a warning shot across the boughs of the car industry and force them to wake up and realise they can't keep going the same way for ever, even if the cars Tesla make are not for everyone they are going to change personal transport. I'm no fan of Elon Musk, but credit where it's due.


...if it creaks, it's probably made by VAG
 

johnnloki

Go Kart Champion
I guess I'm a pretty big fan, if I'm honest. He's the embodiment of what we'd say in high school idealistically about ""If I had a billion dollars, I would __________"

Elon made PayPal, then he started to live that. Him and Richard Branson. Too bad it actually wasn't Branson first, otherwise a significant argument could be made for the Sex Pistols having a pivotal role in the betterment of mankind. Oh well, filthy digital lucre won this time.

They are practically quite quick, just not chuckable and fun in the same way. They'll get there soon for sure, and yes, the roadster and s warned everyone of the impending 3 (and probably will be near perfect by ver 3.25)

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inc55

Go Kart Champion
Well I finally traded in the GTI and took delivery of my model 3 SR+ and I absolutely love this car. So quick, so much fun to drive. The technology is insane. One pedal driving is my favorite. I never touch the brake pedal. Fantastic car and only $100 more than what I was paying for the Gti.
 

jrdigioia

Passed Driver's Ed
I’ve driven the S and the 3, that instant torque is fantastic. Nice car too but I would not say it was fun to drive past the instant take off.
Next car is very likely to be an electric but I’m keeping a fun manual car too. If VW does the ID buzz right, I’ll be all over it.
 

inc55

Go Kart Champion
The best thing for people to do is simply go and test drive the car. This way you actually get to experience it and not take someones word for it.
 

mopar22

Ready to race!
Like jrg said it's a great car with the instant torque but as a "drivers" car it's just alright. I also can't get past the interior (one of the reasons i don't like the mach-e)
 
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