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Ukraine: WAR Huh - What Is It Good For Absorootly Nothing

cb1111

Newbie
Hmm, my ancestors fought ancestors of Ukrainians for their lives, and I fought Russia from my desk during the Cold War. Seems to me I cannot support either side, because only some of the Cossacks were Russian. So, it's not that cut and dried for me. I was never told by my family elders any of the family still lives in what is now Belarus. They escaped to other European countries and the U.S. before I was born. And Ukraine has always been as corrupt as Russia.
Anti-corruption was Zelensky's schtick when he was elected and, while it has improved, the mentality of "what's in it for me?" will remain for awhile - you can't change that overnight. Popular consensus is that you need to only work with a US government agency when doing business there if you want to stay out of jail in the US.
 

cb1111

Newbie
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An unprepared West contemplates threat of Russia’s nonstrategic nukes (defensenews.com)

Russian forces seek to break out of positional warfare – ISW (msn.com)

Growing Tensions Prompt Russia to Fortify Putin’s Hometown with Air Defenses (msn.com)

NATO-Russian war is not fantasy: Is Alliance preparing for attack and what leaked plans say (msn.com)

Orban to Fold on Sweden’s NATO Bid After Overplaying Hand (msn.com)

Russian Soldier Recounts FPV Assault with 'Flock of Drones' Led by 'Queen' (msn.com)

Exclusive-Russia struggles to sell Pacific oil, 14 tankers stuck - sources, data (msn.com)

Putin waiting for Trump presidency is a miscalculation, says ex-Nato chief (msn.com)

Media: Russian convict recruits no longer receive pardons for fighting in Ukraine (msn.com)

Is Germany really ready for war? (msn.com)

U.S. assistance to Ukraine: State Department hopes for quicker decision from Congress (msn.com)

Russia's nukes and why Putin scares world leaders so much (msn.com)

Bloomberg: Russia imported over $1 billion worth of advanced US and European chips in 2023 (msn.com)

Russian Presidential Hopeful Boris Nadezhdin Proposes a Path to Peace in Ukraine (msn.com)

Taliban Under Scrutiny After $1.2M 'Stolen' From Crashed Russian Jet (msn.com)

The mothers and wives of Russian soldiers demand their return from Ukraine: ‘I do not wish the terror I feel on anyone’ (msn.com)

Putin ally's seized luxury yacht 'Royal Romance' transfers to Ukraine, boosting its assets (msn.com)

Ukraine war latest: Russia blocks international commission from investigating Il-76 crash, Ukraine says (msn.com)

Opinion: To save Ukraine, Democrats must compromise on immigration (msn.com)

Bracing for a new era: Bundeswehr unveils bold, comprehensive military reform plan (msn.com)

Russia really wants to stop Ukraine using Elon Musk's Starlink satellites (msn.com)

Strategy of strange accidents: What Ukraine aims to achieve by bombing Russian oil depots (msn.com)

Rising Cases Of Russian Soldiers Deserting Amidst Ukraine Conflict (msn.com)

Nato chief warns West 'must be ready' for war as UK lays bare chances of Putin attacking UK ally (msn.com)

Military transport planes of RF are legitimate target for Armed Forces - Ukraine's representative to UN (msn.com)

Kremlin denies report that Putin reaching out to US, might drop key demands on Ukraine (msn.com)
 

cb1111

Newbie
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German defense minister says country is not ready to defend itself against Russian threat (msn.com)

Ukraine war footage captures a different kind of exploding drone driving for miles on a suicide mission to blow up a bridge (msn.com)

Flying attack helicopters low on risky runs the way they do in Ukraine is far from easy, former Super Cobra pilot says (msn.com)

Russian Military Analyst Claims UK Was Behind Il-76 Plane Crash (msn.com)

France has transferred 2 additional M270 LRU rocket launchers to Ukraine (msn.com)

SBU arrests Russian spy plotting strikes on Ukrainian positions for treason (msn.com)

Russian couple charged with terrorism for Ukrainian-language leaflets (msn.com)

An unlikely challenger to Putin brings a rare show of defiance, creating a dilemma for the Kremlin (msn.com)

Putin issues sinister threat of 'what will follow' during surprise trip to Europe (msn.com)

Drone warfare takes a deadly turn: Ukraine's HIMARS system eliminates Russian 'Judgment Day' squadron (msn.com)

Russian forces plan to attack Kharkiv border in coming weeks, Estonian General Staff says (msn.com)

Putin repeats Ukraine Nazi claims at Leningrad siege memorial (msn.com)

WW3 fears soar as US will 'imminently' move nukes to RAF to counter Russia threat (msn.com)

Russia projects confidence as it pursues alliances to undermine West (msn.com)

Netherlands joins Ukraine's IT coalition with first contribution (msn.com)

Putin Ally Ominously Suggests Texas Could Launch 'Civil War' in US (msn.com)

French fighters in Ukraine rubbish Russian 'dead mercenaries' claims (msn.com)

Theater in Moscow's center on fire, smoke rising from dome (msn.com)

Washington Post: Russia aims to create new world order via alliance with China (msn.com)

Ukraine's loan T-72 tank takes on Russian trenches: A high-stakes gamble backed by drone intelligence (msn.com)

Rising Russian military activity a 'positive sign' for Ukrainians as dated equipment depleted (msn.com)

Podolyak names purpose of Russian fake news about IL-76 crash (msn.com)

Ukraine uncovers mass fraud in weapons procurement - security service (msn.com)

Scholz calls on EU countries to increase aid to Ukraine, approaching peace (msn.com)

Russia's emergency fund dwindling rapidly: economic crisis imminent with oil price decline? (msn.com)

Former top Ukrainian defense procurement chief arrested trying to flee, denies $40m theft charges (msn.com)

NATO chief urges US lawmakers to continue supporting Ukraine, warns Beijing is watching (msn.com)

On a very serious note, we must have a strong, swift and unambiguous response to Iran for the latest attack that killed three US servicemembers today. It should put "shock and awe" to shame - which would also send a message to China and Moscow.
 

cb1111

Newbie
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Ukraine Navy advocates transfer of British frigates HMS Westminster and HMS Argyll if decommissioned (msn.com)

Hurricanes' Alexander Nikishin meets with Vladimir Putin as NHL fans term it a red flag: "It's so over" (msn.com)

'Hybrid War' Between Two Nuclear Powers Brews on Sidelines of Gaza Conflict (msn.com)

Sergei Lavrov's peace talks offer: a Russian ruse or potential breakthrough for Ukraine? (msn.com)

Putin Has Finally United Russians Around the World—Against Himself (msn.com)

Secret Putin Residence Discovered Near Finland – Dossier Center (msn.com)

Putin to Make First Visit to NATO Country in Four Years (msn.com)

Vladimir Putin croney says border standoff with Joe Biden could blow up into civil war (msn.com)

This Ambush Shows How Ukraine Is Holding the Line (msn.com)

Biden given chilling nuclear warning over attacking Iran after kamikaze drone kills troops (msn.com)

Russian opposition figure Kara-Murza has disappeared from prison, colleagues say (msn.com)

Russia is replacing its destroyed tanks at a rate of 100 a month, UK intel says (msn.com)

World War Three is approaching fast, and too few are willing to admit why (msn.com)

‘Just give us the orders!’ — German arms manufacturers plead with Pistorius to speed up procurement (msn.com)

Russian Rocket Scientist Kills Himself After Missile He Helped Produce Obliterates Grandmother’s Ukraine House: Report (msn.com)

Putin lies about IL-76 aircraft — HUR (msn.com)

Ukrainian Hacktivists Launch Catastrophic Cyberstrike on Russian Space Hydrometeorology Center (msn.com)

Northwest Russia Jams Nighttime Internet After Drone Strikes – Reports

Zelenskyy announces number of troops defending Ukraine (msn.com)

Russian Revolt? Officials Conspiring Against Putin, Fueling 'Underground Revolution': Report (msn.com)
 

cb1111

Newbie
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Ukraine war latest: Kyiv would win faster if allowed to hit deep inside Russia with Western weapons, Navy commander says (msn.com)

Europe on alert: Putin's aggressive move towards Ukraine may signal ominous expansion plans (msn.com)

Top Ally Ditches Russian Weapons in Latest Blow to Putin's Arms Sales (msn.com)

Decoding the Chinese map that claimed Russian territory (msn.com)

Putin's pal 'building huge private army' to allegedly crush any coup uprising | Watch (msn.com)

Ukraine is forced to deny firing its military chief and rumours swirl that Putin's war commander has been killed as deep tensions on both sides over conflict's stalemate (msn.com)

Putin is trying to track down overseas properties that the Soviet Union owned and stake claims on them (msn.com)

Putin vs the West: At War is like being in the room as history unfolds (msn.com)

Ukrainian army demonstrates progress in transitioning to NATO standards - ISW (msn.com)

Media: Russia may be shutting down phone connection to prepare air defense (msn.com)

Half of Germany fears Putin's attack, 40% stockpiling for war, says a recent poll (msn.com)

UK intel reveals how many armored vehicles Russian forces have lost in Ukraine since February 2022 (msn.com)

China's Internet Reacts to Texas and US Federal Government 'State of War' (msn.com)

Atesh partisans discover where Russia stores Kalibr missiles in occupied Crimea, publish coordinates (msn.com)

Russian Lawmaker Urges Moving Nuclear Weapons Closer to US (msn.com)

Kremlin, asked about potential US strikes on Iran, calls for all sides to de-escalate (msn.com)

Russia Charges Teens Over Pro-Ukraine Railway Sabotage (msn.com)

Russia jails woman, 72, for six years for social media posts about Ukraine (msn.com)

Russians use munitions with poisonous substances 5 times in a day on Tavriia front (msn.com)

Front-line Ukrainian soldier says the Russians basically 'have it all' when it comes to weapons, but tanks are probably among the more terrifying (msn.com)

Four Jehovah's Witnesses sentenced to seven years each in Russia (msn.com)

Putin's Close Ally Claims Russia 'Suffers More Than Anyone Else' (msn.com)
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
It's nuts that we're not allowing them to hit deeper into Russia, as long as they're military targets.

It's also crazy that we're allowing Israel to incriminately bomb and no one care.

You can't be the "good guys" and bomb civilians. We seem to understand that in the Ukrainian conflict, but are looking the other way in Gaza.
 

oddspyke

Autocross Champion
It's nuts that we're not allowing them to hit deeper into Russia, as long as they're military targets.

It's also crazy that we're allowing Israel to incriminately bomb and no one care.

You can't be the "good guys" and bomb civilians. We seem to understand that in the Ukrainian conflict, but are looking the other way in Gaza.
I think there are some key differences. A big one seems to be that Israel and a large portion of the rest of the world seem to view Palestinian civilians as being complicit with Hamas, whether or not that's true.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
I think there are some key differences. A big one seems to be that Israel and a large portion of the rest of the world seem to view Palestinian civilians as being complicit with Hamas, whether or not that's true.
They 100% are complicit, Hamas has broad support within Gaza. Putin also has wide support within Russia.
Israelis have been complicit in ignoring illegal settlers violence against Palestinians.

Either way, you can't be the "good guys" and openly and deliberately commit war crimes. That's what the "bad guys" do.

I'm not niave enough to think all war crimes and collateral can be avoided, but Israel's entire war plan is to commit widespread, deliberate war crimes as a strategy. Seriously, assasins dressed like doctors killing the enemy at a hospital? One of the targets was wheelchair bound.

Israel has guaranteed all Arab countries will directly support terrorism against them for the next 20 years. Just idiotic.
 
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oddspyke

Autocross Champion
They 100% are complicit, Hamas has broad support within Gaza. Putin also has wide support within Russia.
Israelis have been complicit in ignoring illegal settlers violence against Palestinians.

Either way, you can't be the "good guys" and openly and deliberately commit war crimes. That's what the "bad guys" do.

I'm not niave enough to think all war crimes and collateral can be avoided, but Israel's entire war plan is to commit widespread, deliberate war crimes as a strategy. Seriously, assasins dressed like doctors killing the enemy at a hospital? One of the targets was wheelchair bound.

Israel has guaranteed all Arab countries will directly support terrorism against them for the next 20 years. Just idiotic.
It's basically just a pissing match where they take turns one upping each other with atrocities at this point right? There comes a point where it's hard to feel sorry for either side. I think neither side has any faith that if they deescalate the other side will follow and things will improve... And they're both right.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
It's basically just a pissing match where they take turns one upping each other with atrocities at this point right? There comes a point where it's hard to feel sorry for either side. I think neither side has any faith that if they deescalate the other side will follow and things will improve... And they're both right.

I come out as they're both openly calling for genocide of the other, Israel just has the means and international support to do it, which is sickening.

The far right in Israel have successfully created an international precedent that any criticism of Israel is defacto antisemitism.


The irony is that the "Kanye was right", "Jewish Space Laser", George Soros conspiracy theorists have used the tactic to attack those on the left calling for Israel to use restraint. Netanyahu will be the downfall of Israel.
 

cb1111

Newbie
It's basically just a pissing match where they take turns one upping each other with atrocities at this point right? There comes a point where it's hard to feel sorry for either side. I think neither side has any faith that if they deescalate the other side will follow and things will improve... And they're both right.
I come out as they're both openly calling for genocide of the other, Israel just has the means and international support to do it, which is sickening.

The far right in Israel have successfully created an international precedent that any criticism of Israel is defacto antisemitism.


The irony is that the "Kanye was right", "Jewish Space Laser", George Soros conspiracy theorists have used the tactic to attack those on the left calling for Israel to use restraint. Netanyahu will be the downfall of Israel.

Not really. Hamas has indoctrinated residents to hate Israel from the time they are little children. I assume you've seen the kindergarten play in Gaza where the darling 4 year olds are holding guns and gunning down the kid with the Star of David on his cap.

This begs the question of who the innocents are. The whole world saw the cheering crowds as Hamas dragged the hostages and half naked women through the streets. Are those crowds innocents or Hamas supporters?

I'd opine that one can be supportive of Israel's right to properly defend itself, while still condemning any aggression against civilians - if one can figure out who the civilians are. There is a clear distinction between calling for the elimination of Hamas (a terrorist organization) and the elimination of the state of Israel and all Jews worldwide.

And anti-semitism technically doesn't apply as all the people in the region are semitic.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Not really. Hamas has indoctrinated residents to hate Israel from the time they are little children. I assume you've seen the kindergarten play in Gaza where the darling 4 year olds are holding guns and gunning down the kid with the Star of David on his cap.

This begs the question of who the innocents are. The whole world saw the cheering crowds as Hamas dragged the hostages and half naked women through the streets. Are those crowds innocents or Hamas supporters?

I'd opine that one can be supportive of Israel's right to properly defend itself, while still condemning any aggression against civilians - if one can figure out who the civilians are. There is a clear distinction between calling for the elimination of Hamas (a terrorist organization) and the elimination of the state of Israel and all Jews worldwide.

And anti-semitism technically doesn't apply as all the people in the region are semitic.
Come on. You don't think that same indoctrination is happening in Israel? It's literally how Netanyahu has held onto power?

Netanyahu and his party want the Palestinians out of the west Bank and Gaza, which is why they've allowed illegal settlements and ignored settlers violence against Palestinians.

There's no good guy in this story.
 

cb1111

Newbie
Come on. You don't think that same indoctrination is happening in Israel? It's literally how Netanyahu has held onto power?

Netanyahu and his party want the Palestinians out of the west Bank and Gaza, which is why they've allowed illegal settlements and ignored settlers violence against Palestinians.

There's no good guy in this story.
No, the same indoctrination is not happening in Israel. There is a difference between Hamas' "we need to obliterate Israel and all Jews worldwide and Bibi's "they are out to get us, so we need to...."

There may not be a knight in shining armor in this story, but there certainly is the devil and a not so nice guy.

But then, we need to ask "how should Israel react when Hamas attacks them with the stated purpose of wiping Israel off the map?"
 
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GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
No, the same indoctrination is not happening in Israel. There is a difference between Hamas' "we need to obliterate Israel and all Jews worldwide and Bibi's "they are out to get us, so we need to...."

There may nor be a knight in shining armor in this story, but there certainly is the devil and a not so nice guy.

But the, we need to ask "how should Israel react when Hamas attacks them with the stated purpose of wiping Israel off the map?"
That's absolute nonsense. Zionist jews absolutely believe and teach that the occupied territories are theirs and the Palestinians should be forcibly removed.

Again, there's no good guy, stop trying to create one. They're both openly trying to commit genocide. Israel is just better armed.
 

cb1111

Newbie
That's absolute nonsense. Zionist jews absolutely believe and teach that the occupied territories are theirs and the Palestinians should be forcibly removed.

Again, there's no good guy, stop trying to create one. They're both openly trying to commit genocide. Israel is just better armed.
No, there are some extremists that believe that the Palestinians should be removed - even by force, but:

a: those extremists are in the minority, and
b: there is a difference between removing (even forcibly) and exterminating every Jew in the world and wiping Israel off the map.

You're smart enough to get that difference.

All that said, yes, Israel seems not to be careful with civilians, but that brings me back to that question I asked earlier - "how should Israel react when Hamas attacks them with the stated purpose of wiping Israel off the map?" That is the one and only question that needs to be answered when somebody says "they shouldn't do that"

And getting back on topic - Russia, and to a lesser extent China, have their fingers all over this with the Iranians.
 
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